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Subject:
Cold fusion system
Category: Science > Physics Asked by: quantummechanique-ga List Price: $50.00 |
Posted:
12 Dec 2005 01:02 PST
Expires: 17 Dec 2005 07:58 PST Question ID: 604692 |
There has been many kinds of conversation under general name of "cold fusion". I would like to add my own point of view to it. Most common for cold fusion presumption is that cold fusion would and should happen at the room temperature. When the nature of the gas is that its density raises when the temperature goes lower. Theoretically when a gas is in the absolute zero temperature it collapses into one point. I see this to be the key for cold fusion. If two gas atoms could be set into absolute zero temperature, then the rejecting force between those two atoms would not be enough to resist the gravitation between them. This would cause them to collapse into one singularity, and the excess energy would raise the temperature, if it could not be transfered elsewhere. Cold fusion of two atoms could be produced the easiest. When there would be three or more atoms, their rejecting force would be much stronger because of the structure. Fusion of more than two atoms at a time is not efficient since fusion requires absolute zero temperature, and after first fusion excess energy would transfer into closest atoms. To collect the energy from this kind of fusion would be totally different from hot fusion. To collect excess energy from the cold fusion, distances between the conductor and the atoms should be very short. Therefore cold fusion should be produced inside nano cells. These nano cells could be built in form of a chain, where the excess energy of the first cell would trigger the fusion in the next cell and give the rest of the energy out of the system. The questions are: Is there any logical errors or incomplete definitions? What is your opinion about this idea as an expert of the field? Can it be taken seriously in science world? Other possible objections and comments? |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Cold fusion system
From: ansel001-ga on 12 Dec 2005 01:49 PST |
Hi, I'm not an expert but I don't think this approach will work. From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero Absolute zero does not mean zero energy. In fact because of quantum mechanical effects, the speed at absolute zero is not exactly zero, but depends, as does the energy, on the volume within which the atom is confined. At absolute zero, the molecules and atoms in a system are all in the ground state (i.e., the lowest possible energy state) and the system has the least possible amount of kinetic energy allowed by the laws of physics. This minimum energy corresponds to the zero-point energy encountered in the quantum mechanical particle in a box problem. As emphasised above, the lowest possible energy is not necessarily zero energy, owing to the ramifications of quantum theory. Also from Wikipedia [T]he equation for predicting quantized vibrational levels shows that even when the vibrational quantum number is 0, the molecule still has vibrational energy. This means that no matter how cold the temperature gets, the molecule will always have vibration. This is in keeping with the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which states that both the position and the momentum of a particle cannot be known precisely, at a given time. Again, absolute zero does not mean zero energy. In addition to the above, the electromagnetic force is stronger than gravity and it would cause the protons from two nuclei to repel each other. |
Subject:
Re: Cold fusion system
From: quantummechanique-ga on 12 Dec 2005 03:00 PST |
Thank you for your comment ansel001! This cold fusion system would need triggering of the fusion with electron flow when these atoms are in the ground state. My presumption for vibrational energy being preserved, is that there happens fusions that "heats" the atoms and transfers fusion energy to surrounding atoms to preserve vibrational energy. I'd like to add one quote that points to this kind of phonomenon. "Sonoluminescence arises from acoustic cavitation -- the formation, growth and implosion of small gas bubbles in a liquid blasted with sound waves above 18,000 cycles per second. The collapse of these bubbles generates intense local heating." (PhysOrg; Mar. 2, 2005) http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/ColdFusion/Sonofusion/ I would say that these explosions in "bubbles" preserve the vibrational energy. |
Subject:
Re: Cold fusion system
From: fstokens-ga on 12 Dec 2005 14:59 PST |
Even if you could get fusion to occur under these conditions, I don't see how you could use it to generate useful energy. As soon as any atoms started to fuse, the temperature would go up, you would no longer be at/near absolute zero, and fusion would stop. Even if you did manage to generate some energy by this process, you would need to generate a lot just to compensate for the energy it took to cool the hydrogen to near absolute zero (which is very difficult). You might want to read about Bose-Einstein condensation. In a BE condensate, atoms are cooled near absolute zero and "collapse" into a single wavefunction, similar to what you seem to be thinking of. However, I have never heard of BE condensates leading to fusion or any other nuclear process. |
Subject:
Re: Cold fusion system
From: kottekoe-ga on 12 Dec 2005 20:36 PST |
The key point is the one at the bottom of ansel001's message. The reason that fusion is difficult is the electrostatic repulsion of the two nuclei. For fusion to occur, you need to get the two nuclei many powers of ten closer together than the size of the electron cloud surrounding the nucleus. At these close distances, you can essentially ignore the electrons and you have two positively charged nuclei repelling each other with a force something like 10 to the 40th power stronger than their gravitational attraction. The normal way to overcome the electrostatic potential barrier is to heat the fuel to many 10's of millions of degrees, while also compressing it to very high densities. Under these circumstances, the thermal motion of the nuclei is occasionally enough to overcome the potential barrier. The resulting fusion releases energy which further heats the fuel, thus sustaining this so-called "thermonuclear fusion". Pons and Fleischman claimed to have obtained "cold fusion" using heavy water, palladium, and electrochemistry. Those claims have been discredited. Researchers at Oakridge claimed to have obtained "hot fusion" in a tiny gas bubble in water using "single bubble sonoluminescence". This has not been verified, but even if it were true is still an example of thermonuclear fusion. A form of cold fusion has been demonstrated using mu mesons (muons) to catalyze the fusion of protons. The mass of a muon is 137 times that of an electron, so in a molecule consisting of two protons and a muon, the protons are 137 times closer together than in a conventional molecule in which the muon is replaced by an electron. This is close enough for the protons to tunnel through the barrier and fuse. Unfortunately, the average time for a muon to catalyze a single fusion event is not much shorter than the half-life of the muon itself, so the yield of fusion events for a single muon is small, making this a highly impractical way to generate power. |
Subject:
Re: Cold fusion system
From: quantummechanique-ga on 13 Dec 2005 10:30 PST |
I have to admit that I have taken a presumption that the structure in the cores of the atoms is equivalent to the structure of black holes. When the singularities of the atoms would be aligned on the same axle, repulsion would not be as strong. When there are only two atoms that are being cooled inside a nano cell, it would require different kind of cooling system where cooling would be concentrated. I had to take one more presumption to make a precise cooling possible. To cool only one selected atom at a time, there should be known the vibrational frequency of the atom and nullify it with contrary vibrational frequency. |
Subject:
Re: Cold fusion system
From: mathisfun-ga on 14 Dec 2005 04:27 PST |
Also as stated here: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0861526.html The third law of thermodynamics states absolute zero cannot be reached, and I think the current closest is something like 300 pK which I'm not sure the math behind rejecting force/gravity/brownian motion momentum, however I do believe that even at these temperatures fusion was still not happening. Also for your theory to be considered in the science world you would need to have those computations, forces and whatnot, finally I agree your plan for cooling would need to be presented, odds are if you were able to prove that it is possible to have fusion at near absolute zero you would also have to show that your plan for getting to temperatures that low would not exceed the energe produced by the amount of substance you cooled. |
Subject:
Re: Cold fusion system
From: quantummechanique-ga on 14 Dec 2005 16:03 PST |
I'd like to thank all of you for your comments and welcome all new ones. These answers have given me much material for my synopsis of the theory, and prepares me with what I need when I go more in-depth with analysis, because I can limit the search of information to most important details that are defined. |
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