I am looking to buy/install a POE (Point of Entry) water filter system
and need help finding the "best of the best".  I am turning my yard
into an organic vegetable garden and want to ensure that only organic
materials are to come in contact with the soil.

Here's the thing, I live in Los Angeles County where there are so many
additives/chemicals in the city water. It is impossible to be able to
water an organic garden in this area while keeping it organic....aside
from just relying on rain water that is.

The most important thing that I am looking for in a water filter is
QUALITY...that it is made to last and will remove all of which it
claims to. It also needs to have a large capacity as it will be for
the entire house (shower, sink, garden sprinklers, drinking water,
laundry, etc.)

Here is a link to the most recent water report of my area, which you
might or might not want to reference: 
http://www.ci.pasadena.ca.us/waterandpower/pdf/PWP%20Water%20Quality%20Report%202005.pdf

***The 4 things the water filter must be able to filter out well are:
Chlorine/Chloride, Fluoride, Nitrates, and Perchlorate.

If you are finding more than one system that looks like the best,
don't feel like you have to narrow it down to one. Feel free to email
me the info and/or links to them all (but no more than FIVE please).
Also, don't hesitate to email me with any clarification questions that
you may have. Thanks!

P.S. I will tip nicely if I am impressed with your answer :)

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Clarification of Question by rodez-ga on 20 Dec 2005 11:10 PST

Okay, thanks for the comment lciummo-ga! 

That has reminded me to add one important note: 
I already have an under the sink carbon water filter for drinking
water (made by MultiPure).

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Request for Question Clarification by jbf777-ga on 11 Jan 2006 12:36 PST

Hello -

Are you open to using more than one POE system in series?   This may
be the only way to remove all of these chemicals at the POE.  Do you
have any budget constraints?

Thanks,

jbf777

---

Clarification of Question by rodez-ga on 12 Jan 2006 22:31 PST

Good questions! Thank you for asking..... 

1)I am up for using more than one POE if need be, however, here's the
thing: I am renting the place where I live now and am planning to move
in the next year or two.  If it is a fairly affordable system(s), but
bulky and complicated to install, I would probably be able to split
the costs with my landlord and then would leave the POE(s) here when
moving. However, if it is over ~$1200, than I would probably have to
pay for it all (rather than split the cost) and would want to be able
to move it to my next house. That would mean something that's not too
bulky and is fairly easy to install/uninstall at different locations. 
Point being, it really would depend on the cost, size, and ease of
installation. Hopefully this makes sense, as it's more than just a yes
or no answer.

2) Regardless of any possible budget constraints, I don't want to rule
out any systems based on their price, so please do consider all of the
options(on a residential-scale that is). The one thing I would keep in
mind when thinking about the total cost of each POE however, would be
the frequency of the filter replacements as well as it's price... as
that can really add up.

3)One more change/clarrification: As far as the 4 things I listed that
need to be filtered out by the system(s), the perchlorates could be
left out if need be. I would focus on the removal of the other 3
elements first, and then look into which of those systems might be
able to remove some (or all) of the perchlorates. Given the advice I
recieved from lciummo-ga, who left the first comment, it sounds like
it is not so realistic to think about removing those on a home level.

***An important thing to keep in mind while doing the research is that
there will be times during which a high volume of water is used over a
short period of time...for example ---> watering the whole garden,
taking a shower, and doing dishes all within a few hours of each
other.

Please don't hesitate to email with any other
questions/clarrifications you may have at any point. I will be more
than happy to provide an answer or share my thoughts with you. Thanks
again :)

Hello -

Thanks for the additional information.

I spoke with representatives from two leading water filtration product
testing labs in the country -- NSF (formerly National Sanitation
Foundation; now just "NSF") and Water Quality International (WQA). 
WQA specifically recommends activated charcoal for POE removal of
chlorine and anion filtration (or "ion exchange") for POE removal of
nitrates and fluoride.  Reverse osmosis does indeed work for nitrates
and fluoride, but POE reverse osmosis is not doable with metal piping,
as the water becomes "too clean" and can dissolve it, causing leakage
into your supply.  Reverse Osmosis is only possible with plastic
piping, which isn't as common as metal.

According to WQA, percholate isn't yet an EPA-certified contaminant
(as far as drinking water is concerned) and it appears most filtering
of this substance is done in nonresidential capacities.  According to
the following EPA web page, anion exchange systems may be effective in
reducing perchlorate
(http://www.epa.gov/safewater/ccl/perchlorate/perchlorate.html).  This
technology is used in the products I reference below.

Both testing labs use the standards created by NSF, which are
accredited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI).  The
"best" water filtration products on the market are going to be those
that are certified by one of these quality-governing bodies. 
Certified devices are ones authenticated to meet the necessary
operational standard requirements to effectively filter water.  There
doesn not exist a certified POE system that filters nitrates or
fluoride.  However, I have found a company that makes a POE system
containing all NSF-certified parts -- including the tanks, housing,
and microprocessor controller.  I would deem this package the best
option for your situation.

Crystal Quest is the manufacturer of the system, which comes with 5-10
(part-specific) year warranty.  They count US embassies and government
agencies among their client base.  I spoke with a representative named
Mike who confirmed the WS/WF/N 1.5 (750k gallons) or 2.0 (1 million
gallons) package will do just what you need.  It comes with three
10x54 tanks with microprocessor controlled KDF/carbon ion exchange
systems.  Depending on options, the whole package prices between
$3000-$4000, and is certified to reduce chlorine 95%+, bringing
fluoride to within .5 ppm and nitrates to within .5 ppm.  When
calling, ask for Mike, and reference the "Google Answers" request
(1-888-363-9842).  See
http://www.crystalquest.com/nitrate%20water%20filter.htm.

Should you have any additional questions, feel free to ask.  Thank you!

jbf777
Researcher
Google Answers

Links/Sources:

(1) NSF-certified products
    http://www.nsf.org/Certified/DWTU/

    WQA-certified products
    http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=1165

    UL
    http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/index.htm
    
(2) Oak Ridge National Laboratory, part of the US's Department of Energy,  
    has developed the BiQuat resin for Perchlorate reduction in water, which is    
    5x better than other resins on the market according to this article:

    http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/v32_2_99/dealing.htm

    Purolite sells the resin, but there doesn't appear to be a POE system for
    it yet.  See  http://purolite.biz/POU_POE_Perchlorate_Removal.pdf

    Purolite
    1-800-343-1500

(3) For $200, you can order a highly scientific breakdown of NSF's standards.    
    Contact Tom Gloden at 734-913-5785 for more information.


Search strategy:
contacted relevant organizations and associated websites

---

Request for Answer Clarification by rodez-ga on 01 Feb 2006 18:48 PST

Thank you for the clear layout and all of the information you have
provided in your response. Sorry not to request clarification sooner,
I've been away from home until recently.

It sounds like the system you reccomended is quite bulky, which would
be okay if it were under $1200, meaning, if I could split the cost
with my landlord and leave it here. However, for $3000-$4000 I would
need a smaller system to be able to move with me to my next home. For
that reason, I am not satisfied with the outcome of your research,
even though you have indeed been thorough.

Clarification: 
I am looking for a residential POE system that is either under $1200
(to leave behind at this house, with no limit on size), or that is
small enough and easy to install/unistall (for moving purposes) at any
price. Finding the best quality system at a reasonal price would be my
preference. Could you please find me a POE system that meets those
requirements. Thanks!

---

Clarification of Answer by jbf777-ga on 02 Feb 2006 11:22 PST

Hello -

The same company makes a model called the "Triple 20" Whole House"
which will be a little over $400 shipped, and made with all certified
parts.  You'll want to make sure to order it with the nitrate
cartridge.  A picture of it, as well as additional information on it,
is at this link:

http://www.crystalquest.com/whole-house-water-filters.htm

This should be significantly less bulky.  The chief difference between
this and the other product is the middle tank's size and total weight
when filled with water (225 pounds less), how long the filters last,
and its Fluoride filtering capability (due to reduced contact with the
water), which is not relevant, since Fluoride is not your chief
concern (nitrates are).

Thanks,

jbf777

---

Clarification of Answer by jbf777-ga on 02 Feb 2006 11:31 PST

(Just to add: your water is already well within the limit of tolerable
content of Fluoride.  The EPA's MCL on Fluoride is 4, and Pasadena's
is only 2, occuring from natural deposit erosions).

I'm a casual water filterer, having dealt with well water problems,
but your solutions looks to need multiple systems:

Chlorine needs an activates charcoal filter.

Fluorides can be removed with reverse osmosis or activated alumini
cartridge (or an ion exchange system - see below)

Nitrates can best be removed by reverse osmosis.

Perchlorates can be removed with an ion exchange system using resin
pellets similar to water softener, but a lot more expensive.

If it was me, I would get a large activated charcoal filter AND a RO
system for the sink or whereever your drinking water source is. You
might bypass the carbon filter for outside watering, unless you need
it for your organic activities.

RO is not practical for a whole house system - it's slow and uses too
much water, and cleaning Perchlorates at the home level is not
practical, though it has been done in large scale sites where I live
in MA on miltar bases.

At Your service,

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake, RAF (retired)