We are searching for cartoon that has the caption: "That's a splendid
idea, Miss Dickinson. I wonder if one of the men would like to suggest
it?" (or something very close).  We are seeking a complete citation of
where the cartoon appeared in print, and if possible a copy.

The Cartoon is a grey ink brush drawing.  The artist signature is
either Larsen (perhaps as in Carl "Chick" Larsen the political
cartoonist) or Larson (perhaps as in Gary Larson cartoon strip artist
of "the Far Side").

The cartoon may be described thusly: We are looking at a board room
with a long table stretching away from the Point of View.  On either
side are seated several identical looking men in plain gray suits.  At
the far end (head of table) there is a small elderly man sitting
directly in front of an picture of him labeled "Our Founder". The only
woman in the room, (presumably Miss Dickinson) is standing at the foot
of the table as if she had just presented.  Our founder's mouth is
open and is presumably speaking the lines that appear  in the caption:

"That's a splendid idea, Miss Dickinson. I wonder if one of the men
would like to suggest it?"

The cartoon appeared no earlier than 1973, and no later than 1990, in
some large circulation american  periodical.  The style of the cartoon
is consistent with those that appear regularly in the New Yorker, but
the New Yorker index showed no such caption and no cartoon by Larsen
or Larson.

Dear mcgregor94086,

It wasn't easy, but I have finally found the cartoon; however, the
result of my research is a bit surprising. I found out that it is
actually a British cartoon that originally appeared on 8 January 1988
in the British magazine "Punch". The artist is cartoonist Duncan.

Here is an image of the cartoon, with full caption. You will notice
that both the drawing and the wording do not match exactly your
description, but they nevertheless clearly follow those lines very
closely:
http://www.punch.co.uk/images/Cartoons/business/03.gif
(The cartoon is copyrighted material, thus the Copyright logo.)

In case the above link does not work, please use this alternative link:
http://www.punch.co.uk/galleries/business/03.html

In case you would like to use this specific cartoon for some kind of
project, please refer to the copyright holder:

The Punch Cartoon Library	
87-135 Brompton Road
Knightsbridge
London
SW1X 7XL
United Kingdom	
--
Tel: +44 (0)20 7225 6710 
Fax: +44 (0)20 7225 6712
Email: punch.library@harrods.com
Website: http://www.punch.co.uk/

I did extensive additional research to find out if there is an
American version of this cartoon, drawn by a cartoonist with a name
closer to "Larsen" and with an image resembling more exactly your
description. But no such version of the cartoon turned up anywhere. So
with the material available through online sources, I assume that the
cartoon I found is the one you are looking for.

I hope that this is what you needed!
Best regards,
Scriptor



Search terms used:
"splendid idea, Miss"
://www.google.de/search?num=20&hl=de&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22splendid+idea%2C+Miss%22&btnG=Suche&meta=
"excellent idea * jones" -johnson
://www.google.de/search?num=20&hl=de&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22excellent+idea+%2A+jones%22+-johnson&btnG=Suche&meta=
"would like to suggest it" cartoon -"allan johnson"
://www.google.de/search?num=20&hl=de&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22would+like+to+suggest+it%22+cartoon+-%22allan+johnson%22&btnG=Suche&meta=
"allan johnson" "idea ms"
://www.google.de/search?q=%22allan+johnson%22+%22idea+ms%22&num=20&hl=de&lr=&newwindow=1&c2coff=1&safe=off&start=0&sa=N
"cartoon by duncan"
://www.google.de/search?num=20&hl=de&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22cartoon+by+duncan%22&btnG=Suche&meta=
"Perhaps one of the men here would"
://www.google.de/search?num=20&hl=de&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22Perhaps+one+of+the+men+here+would%22&btnG=Suche&meta=
"suggestion, * Triggs"
http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22suggestion%2C+%2A+Triggs%22&btnG=Suche
"suggestion miss triggs"
://www.google.de/search?num=20&hl=de&newwindow=1&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22suggestion+miss+triggs%22&btnG=Suche&meta=


Sources:

Online with Louise Ripley: Gender Issues in Management - Language
http://www.atkinson.yorku.ca/~lripley/gimUlanguage.htm

Massachusetts Institute of Technology: Barriers to Equality (PDF file)
http://web.mit.edu/ombud/documents/barriers.pdf

HaloScan: Comments - 29 August 2005
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/avedon/291202/

WorldCon: Noreascon 3 Convention Report
http://fanac.org/worldcon/Noreascon/w89-rpt.html

eDirectory: "Perhaps one of the men here would like to make it" by
Punch (Google Cache archived version)
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:wjchMLhIkcYJ:www.edirectory.co.uk/pf/Pages/moreinfoa.asp%3Frecordid%3D912173%26cid%3D880+%22+Perhaps+one+of+the+men+here+would%22&hl=de

---

Request for Answer Clarification by mcgregor94086-ga on 27 Dec 2005 14:26 PST

This is an interestingly similar cartoon, but it is not the cartoon
that Mary Rowe (MIT ombuds office) and I are looking for.  Each of us
saw the cartoon we described and each of us at one time or another had
a copy in our possession.  Although the content is similar, the image
is destinctly different - in this case the image is a line drawing,
where as in the one we described it more clearly included an ink wash
fill in of the men in suits, and the table was viewed from the other
angle we described.

What is particularly curious about this cartoon is that its similarity
of caption is so similar that one has to wonder if there wasn't some
sort of plagerism involved, whether deliberate or unintentional. 
Given that it comes at the later part of our expected period, and
appeared in a British magazine not a US magazine, we might therefore
conclude that this appearance probably marks the   end of the likely
period of appearance of the US version.

Mary Rowe is pretty certain of the caption, as she used it in a
published paper she delivered on the topic of sex discrimination. I'm
pretty sure that the signature is Larsen (though it may have been
difficult to discriminate from "Larson".  While the humor is not a
typical for Gary Larson, the characters in the drawing and the format
(ink wash vs. line drawing and independent cartoon vs. appearing in
his daily strip, suggests to me that it is most likely not a Gary
Larson cartoon.

We are still eager to find the specific cartoon that Mary referenced in her paper.

---

Request for Answer Clarification by mcgregor94086-ga on 28 Dec 2005 16:07 PST

Regarding the additional image you found in cartoon stock, do you know
its date and place of publication, it seems like there may be several
that may be variants by different artists.

Regarding the other reference, I would have described the cartoon as
being "in the style" of cartoons frequently published in the New
Yorker.  However, I consulted the complete cartoons of the New Yorker
and contacted them on line to confirm there are no cartoons with a
variant of this caption.

Do any of these references you have give an actual publication date or
show the image?

By the way, Mary Rowe says it is definately "Miss Dickinson" - it
caught her eye and she remembers it clearly because that is a family
name.

---

Clarification of Answer by scriptor-ga on 28 Dec 2005 17:19 PST

Dear mcgregor94086,

I am very sorry that I was not able to provide what you are looking
for. I did additional research, unfortunately with no better results.
Of course, if you are dissatisfied you don't have to pay for this
answer. In that case, please use this form to request a full refund:
http://answers.google.com/answers/refundrequest

Please accept my aplogies.
Regards,
Scriptor

Although the researcher did not find what we were looking for, the
researcher was diligent and found several other interesting
references.  Had the researcher found the image we were looking for,
we would have considered this an excellent job.

I found another one:

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jmo0301l.jpg

From this website:

http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/g/glass_ceilings.asp

Also a reference here, with yet a different name:

"A classic cartoon shows a board room with several men and one woman
sitting around a table. The caption reads: "That's an excellent
suggestion, Ms. McCarthy. Perhaps one of the men would like to make
it."3"

http://www.opd.iupui.edu/ofw/task.html

Here are some more variations:

"That's a wonderful suggestion, Ms. Jones. Perhaps one of the men
would like to make it?"

Today's title comes from caption of a marvelous New Yorker cartoon,
which shows a board room full of men and one woman; the chairman of
the board is addressing her following her suggestion.

From this website:
http://thinkoutloud.blogspot.com/2004_06_01_thinkoutloud_archive.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excellent idea, Ms. Jones. Perhaps one of the men would like to suggest it." 
This caption from a New Yorker cartoon quoted by author Allan Johnson
encapsulates the basic problem addressed in his book: that we are so
enveloped in a male-oriented culture that we accept this kind of
routine diminishment of women as standard daily fare.

From this website:
http://www.oldspeed.com/vwaws/1566395194.htm
(there are many, many mentions of this cartoon on the web)

Regarding the additional image you found in cartoon stock, do you know
its date and place of publication, it seems like there may be several
that may be variants by different artists.

Regarding the other reference, I would have described the cartoon as
being "in the style" of cartoons frequently published in the New
Yorker.  However, I consulted the complete cartoons of the New Yorker
and contacted them on line to confirm there are no cartoons with a
variant of this caption.

Do any of these references you have give an actual publication date or
show the image?

By the way, Mary Rowe says it is definately "Miss Dickinson" - it
caught her eye and she remembers it clearly because that is a family
name.

The only information regarding the cartoons is what was contained in
the web sites listed in my comments.  You have to copy and paste the
website into the address bar to access the sites, they do show the
image in each case.  There does not seem to be any references to any
dates of publication.

It seems to me that the caption is a generic punchline in the form of
"That's an excellent suggestion (Insert Random Name Here), perhaps one
of the men would like to make it".  The exact cartoon you seek does
not seem to be available online.

These comments are in addition to the answer provided by Scriptor, he
may not be able to comment upon my additions.  I see he has mentioned
that a refund may be requested.  If you do not do this you will be
charged the full amount for his answer.

Bowler-ga

If the artest was Chick Larsen, it most likely would have appeared in
the Richmond Times Dispatch, in Richmond, Virginia, most likely in the
'70s.

Here are references to Chick Larsen's works:
Larsen, Carl Edgar (Chick Larsen)

BIRTH: Newport News, VA Feb 2, 1923 STUDY: Art Virginia Commonwealth
University B.F.A. 1954 WORK: News Artist, Cartoonist Richmond Times
Dispatch 1951-1968; Editorial Cartoonist 1968-77; Graphics
Presentation Manager/ Cartoonist 1977-88; Freelance Cartoonist
1951-88; Art Director Commonwealth Magazine VA State Chamber of
Commerce 1962-72; Art Instructor VA. Commonwealth University 1956-61
SPECIALTY: Political/Social MEMBERSHIPS: Association of American
Editorial Cartoonists BOOKS/FILMS: (C) "The Anxious Economy" The
Portable Stanford 1975; "Beyond the Turning Point" The Portable
Stanford 1981; "Betrayal in Vietnam" Arlington House 1976; "Editorial
& Political Cartooning" Stravon Education Press 1976; "Best Editorial
Cartoons of 1972-78" Pelican Publishing Co.; (E) "The 1970's Best
Political Cartoons of the Decade" McGraw Hill Book Co. 1981
PUBLICATIONS/SYNDICATED FEATURES: United Feature Syndicate,
"Carrier-Toons" 1979-84; Sunday Color Comic Strip; N.Y. Times and
other magazines and newspapers AWARDS: Freedoms Foundation George
Washington Gold Medal for Cartoons 1969, 71 CARTOONS IN PUBLIC
COLLECTIONS: James Branch Cabell Memorial Library, Virginia
Commonwealth University; ONE-MAN SHOWS: James Branch Cabell Memorial
Library, VA Commonwealth University 1986 OTHER PROF.
ACTIVITIES/ACHIEVEMENTS: Spoken in many schools, churches, Sr.
Citizen's Groups, Civic Organizations Etc.; Produced block prints,
drawings paintings and written a book CURRENT RESIDENCE:
Mechanicsville, VA USA