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Subject:
Mother of all telescopes
Category: Science Asked by: billa999-ga List Price: $10.00 |
Posted:
28 Dec 2005 05:38 PST
Expires: 27 Jan 2006 05:38 PST Question ID: 610429 |
Because the practical ability to travel to distant star systems is limited by the speed of light a possible alternative would be to inspect these places using space based telescopes. As technology improves in the coming centuries the human race may be able to construct some very large space based telescopes. This question is not about how this will be done but about how big these telescopes must be to achieve sufficient resolution to see distant star systems. What I would like to have from your researches is a chart with the following information: Y-axis = distance from our spaced based telescope in light years x-axis = telescope diameter (assume a reflecting type telescope) in feet. Plot on this chart the following points: Diameter of telescope needed to resolve disk of nearest star. Diameter of telescope needed to resolve disk of earth size planet in orbit around this star. Diameters of telescope needed to resolve surface features of varies sizes on this planet. |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Mother of all telescopes
From: siliconsamurai-ga on 28 Dec 2005 07:18 PST |
Don't have time to build the chart right now so I'll leave this open to another researcher, but as a quick note I will mention that you would need a 40 meter diameter mirror to resolve any details on the surface of Proxima Centauri which has an angular diameter of about 1.8 millionths of a degree from this distance. But what you have missed is that this size scope isn't necessary - large mirrors are needed to gather more light, not achieve greater resolution. Since nearby stars are bright enough to see easily you would actually use two relatively small mirrors placed 40-50 meters apart which would give the resolution you need without the impossibly large size of a single mirror. |
Subject:
Re: Mother of all telescopes
From: qed100-ga on 28 Dec 2005 08:00 PST |
Hello, siliconsamurai, you said: "large mirrors are needed to gather more light, not achieve greater resolution" This isn't correct. Large aperture is required for high resolution. The reason why multiple smaller mirrors can be used in place of a single large one is that the larger aperture can be "synthesised" by carefully interfering the simultaneous signals from the smaller ones. A tradeoff is that the total light collecting area of the smaller mirrors will be less than that of a single uninterrupted mirror, having a diameter equal to that of the separation (baseline) of the smaller ones, and so longer exposure times are necessary. Synthetic large apertures have been used commonly in radio astronomy for several decades. The largest one of course is the Very Large Array (VLA), near Socorro, New Mexico. Optical bandwidth interometers are more demanding due to the smaller wavelengths, and only in recent years have any gone online. Also, there are ongoing plans to deploy a very large baseline space-based interferometric optical telescope in a few years, which will be capable of resolving images of extra-solar planets. |
Subject:
Re: Mother of all telescopes
From: elids-ga on 28 Dec 2005 08:07 PST |
excerpt from an article in New Scientist recently; ---------------- Turn off the star to see the planet ALMOST every extrasolar planet discovered so far has been detected indirectly by measuring the wobble it induces in its host star. Spotting a planet directly is a huge challenge because the star is at least 10 million times brighter and completely overwhelms any light from the planet. But a simple device called an optical vortex could help astronomers blot out the starlight and bring planets into focus. So far, attempts to see planets directly have involved positioning a small opaque disc in a telescope so that it blocks out the star's light. But light from the star can still bend round the edges of the disc, creating bright diffraction bands that swamp signs of the planet. Now Grover Swartzlander, Gregory Foo and David Palacios from the University of Arizona in Tucson think that the starlight could be removed using a helical mask with a series of steps etched into a transparent material (see Diagram). Light travels more slowly through the mask than it does through air. And because some parts of the mask are thicker than others, it creates a phase difference between the light that travels through the various sections. When the phase difference between the thickest and the thinnest parts is exactly two full waves, something unexpected happens: light in the central core destructively interferes, creating an "optical vortex" that has a dark core with light spinning out into a bright ring around it. The mask can block out the starlight, leaving a dark core that acts as a window through which a planet's light can pass (Optics Letters, vol 30, p 3308). The vortex will work only with powerful telescopes capable of resolving the star from its planet, so that the light from the planet and star come in at different angles. In laboratory trials using lasers to mimic a star and planet, the vortex mask cut the "starlight" by factors of between 100 and 1000 without blocking any of the planet's light. But there are limitations. The pitch of the helical mask determines the wavelength of light that it will block out. Essentially each mask works for only one colour. For the technique to be practical, Swartzlander says that the mask would have to work over a wider range of wavelengths. Also, the mask's optical quality must be improved. "But these are the first experiments to demonstrate the basic idea," Swartzlander says. "Theoretically, our technique would make an arbitrarily dim planet visible." ?The mask blocks the starlight, leaving a dark core that acts as a window through which a planet's light can pass? His team hopes the vortex might be useful for projects such as NASA's Terrestrial Planet Finder (TPF). But Steve Kilston of Ball Aerospace and Technologies in Boulder, Colorado, a company contracted by NASA to work on the TPF design, says the mask's single-colour results do not come close to demonstrating the performance needed to see the multicoloured light from a faint planet. From issue 2529 of New Scientist magazine, 10 December 2005, page 19 |
Subject:
Re: Mother of all telescopes
From: elids-ga on 28 Dec 2005 08:14 PST |
here is an article from Scientific American that uses a similar technique to improve resolution. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=000DAB63-D062-13A9-906283414B7F0000 the idea being it is not so much the size of the scope any more but the technology behind it. Of course a larger scope would gather more light and improve results but no longer are the results contrained to the light gathering capabilities of scopes, we can now see much farther using yesterday's scopes and today's technology. There is no reason to think that the trend wont continue. Elí |
Subject:
Re: Mother of all telescopes
From: siliconsamurai-ga on 28 Dec 2005 08:24 PST |
Large mirror "surfaces" such as large diameter round mirrors are used to gather more light. Higher resolution can be obtained by a line of small mirrors which generate almost the same resolution as an entire mirror of that full diameter. If this weren't true then the VLA wouldn't work. |
Subject:
Re: Mother of all telescopes
From: qed100-ga on 28 Dec 2005 09:01 PST |
"Large mirror "surfaces" such as large diameter round mirrors are used to gather more light. Higher resolution can be obtained by a line of small mirrors which generate almost the same resolution as an entire mirror of that full diameter." Yes, that's what I said, with the exception that arrays are connected interferometrically. Otherwise they'd just be a bunch of smaller independent mirrors. |
Subject:
Re: Mother of all telescopes
From: siliconsamurai-ga on 28 Dec 2005 11:07 PST |
I figured someone asking such a question would understand that - I don't go into extensive detail unless I am actually answering. |
Subject:
Re: Mother of all telescopes
From: eestudent-ga on 13 Jan 2006 15:30 PST |
Check out the latest issue of the Discover magazine. |
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