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Q: I.R.A.,SEIN FINN ( No Answer,   5 Comments )
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Subject: I.R.A.,SEIN FINN
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference
Asked by: interested_1-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 28 Dec 2005 15:50 PST
Expires: 27 Jan 2006 15:50 PST
Question ID: 610685
what is the I.R.A.,SEIN FINN and would someone refering to themself as
a commander of loyal M8s be involved?if so,do i have need to be
concerned for his safety?please answer as soon as possible.i'm sorry i
cant afford more than $10.00.much appreciate your help.

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 28 Dec 2005 15:56 PST
I'll be glad to gather information for you on Sinn Féin, but I don't
know exactly what you mean by "would someone refering to themself as a
commander of loyal M8s be involved?" The slang term "M8" simply means
"mate," in the sense of "chum" or "pal."

Clarification of Question by interested_1-ga on 28 Dec 2005 16:26 PST
hi,that was fast.m8,mate thought so.are there commanders in sein finn,i.r.a.?
do they live by a code of silence?hes reluctant to answer
questions.also,they call themselves soldiers.does that fit?

Clarification of Question by interested_1-ga on 28 Dec 2005 16:31 PST
sorry,also if not sein finn,i.r.a.then what would a commander of loyal
m8 soldiers be up to?thanks.

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 28 Dec 2005 16:34 PST
It sounds as if you are looking for information about a particular
person. I can't provide that. If you have doubts about someone whom
you don't know very well, it may be wise to distance yourself from
such a person.

Clarification of Question by interested_1-ga on 29 Dec 2005 10:16 PST
hi,just wrote to you accidently on post comment.wasnt scared,but now
am.is it possible for you to read it and then delete it.it was not
meant for public viewing.thank you.
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: I.R.A.,SEIN FINN
From: geof-ga on 28 Dec 2005 23:15 PST
 
IRA stands for Irish Republican Army, and is an irregular military
group (ie freedom fighters or terrorists, depending on your point of
view) which for many years took action (mainly bombings in Northern
Ireland and mainland UK) in support of unification between the North
and South of Ireland. The IRA has now declared that it has ceased
military action.

Sinn Fein is a political party also supporting the unification of
Ireland, but which has always maintained its independence from the
IRA. Generally speaking members of the IRA and Sinn Fein are Roman
Catholic by religion.

The term "IRA Sinn Fein" is mainly used by the political opponents of
the IRA and Sinn Fein when they refer to Sinn Fein, because they do
not believe that the IRA and Sinn Fein are separate organisations; but
are really the same individuals wearing different hats. Generally
speaking these opponents of the IRA and Sinn Fein are Protestant.

I don't know where you live, but as pinkfreud indicates, if you don't
know much about Irish politics, you should be very wary of getting
mixed up in it.Also, if you're conducting an email or chatroom
correspondence with someone you don't know, you should be cautious in
any case.
Subject: Re: I.R.A.,SEIN FINN
From: frde-ga on 29 Dec 2005 06:26 PST
 
For practical purposes one can regard Sein Fein (ourselves alone) and
the IRA (Irish Republican Army) as the same thing.

The Republic of Ireland ( AKA Eire ) is not that fond of them, but it
is wise to pay lip service to the purported ideals of a bunch of out
of control individuals who could seriously damage your lifestyle.

Supposedly the IRA wishes to 'unite' Ireland and break away from the
UK, but the formerly agrarian Eire is already doing its own thing, and
the formerly industrialized Northern Ireland is reluctant to cut
itself off from a relatively (financially) benign Great Britain.

Mostly the 'troubles' have died down - especially after 9/11

Chances are that the 'soldier' bit is derived from USA Mafia
terminology, where a small number of well trained individuals were
isolated in a safe house and used for abrupt attacks - in essence a
military unit.
- in Mafia terms it also meant 'bit player' 
- the lowest in the command structure who would kill without question
( So a 'soldier' is either a member of an elite unit or a moron )

The M8 bit might be 'mate', personally I suspect that it has another
significance.
Domestic rebellions tend to get infiltrated 
- in the UK by MI5 and MI6
- M-8 (pronounced EM Eights) would indicate 'uninfiltrated' 
- really trusted 'mates' (or maybe the opposite)

Regardless, an 'amnesty' is crawling through the UK legal system,
whereby people can 'fess up and get a tap on the wrist and a few quid
from the poor box.

Mostly you need to find a nice old Vietnam Vet for your lad to talk to

Also - mostly when guys get older, they get civilized
Subject: Re: I.R.A.,SEIN FINN
From: interested_1-ga on 29 Dec 2005 09:35 PST
 
pinkfreud,geof-ga,frde-ga,
      just got my first computer and thought it would be fun being of
scottish ancestry to learn about the people and culture,thats how m8
commander and i crossed paths.when i told him i was advised that it
would be wise to distance myself he understood and left it up to
me.his reluctantcy to discuss the subject changed after i answed one
question.are you prod or cath?my answer,prod.for him the right
answer.hes in the north.his answers match yours.heeding your warning i
questioned the meaning of m8 commander.he gives the orders.he
explained that he finally got tired of seeing his friends shot and
killed in the streets.he said that when they strike,he strikes back.i
dont know if em eights are in the north but when i read that from you
thats the one that sounded closest to me.you use the words really
trusted,he uses the word loyal frequently.one question opens the door
to 1000 more.his side of the story,they like things just as they
are,and fiercely protective of it.a major concern is a complete change
of the school system,loss of freedom,specifically freedom of speech.we
discuss food,music,etc.i love to learn and feel that hes o.k. as far
as having a teacher/student relationship.i dont know why you want him
to talk to a vietnam vet but trust that you know why and so will
they.i will contact them and suggest to commander that it may be in
his best interest to make contact.he trusts me and i trust you so i
will try.thanks for everything.your better than rock stars to me.if
you were on a stage id jump up and down and scream and applaud.
Subject: Re: I.R.A.,SEIN FINN
From: frde-ga on 30 Dec 2005 04:11 PST
 
Ok, I'm getting the picture

Here is a brief and not very accurate snapshot of what happened in Ireland.

Historically Ireland has always been known as the backdoor to Britain,
a place where invaders could gather and launch an attack. For this
reason it has generally been reckoned a good idea to keep the area
under mainland control.

Originally Ireland was populated by Celts, the same group that
populated Scotland, Wales, England and Brittany (Northern France).
When the Romans turned up they absorbed the population of England, but
built a wall between England and Scotland and never really got that
far into Wales.

The Roman Empire fell into decline, partly due to infighting, Roman
administration pulled out and England lapsed into 'the Dark Ages',
invaders then turned up from Germany (Angles and Saxons) and settled
in the South East of England.

Other invaders, the Vikings turned up from mainly Denmark, they
settled in the North West of England, Scotland, Ireland and part of
North France (Normandy).
Gradually the people in England got mixed together and united.
Wales, Scotland and Ireland all did their own thing.

Then the Normans (who had got pretty technologically advanced) invaded
England, it is possible that they were invited, the last English King
(Edward the Confessor) was brought up in Normandy and is supposed to
have admired their advanced technological and adminstrative skills.

The Normans were Vikings who had got smart.

When things settled down, the new 'English' got on with invading their
Southern neighbour, France - but Scotland was largely left alone.
Periodically they would try to 'settle' Ireland, the 'back door' to
England, but invariably the settlers went native.

In the 1500's the Protestant movement grew in Europe, basically people
got fed up of being told what to do by the Pope in Rome - although it
was probably largely down to the growth of a town dwelling middle
class who did not like being kicked around by the aristocracy and the
established church - who were basically the same people.

Protestantism took firm hold in Scotland (who knows why), while in
England Protestantism was hijacked as the State religion - with the
monarch firmly established as the head of the church.
England suffered a brief and unfortunate return to Catholicism under
Mary Tudor, then a revertion to Protestantism under her sister
Elizabeth I.

France clamped down on Protestantism, and a large number of refugees
swarmed over to England.

By the late 1500's Europe was firmly divided into Protestants and
Catholics, with the Spanish heading up the Catholic team and England
the Anti-Catholic team.

England started getting rather good at building battle ships, and were
becoming a pest to the Spanish who had struck gold and silver in South
America.
The Spanish decided to swat England and sent over a couple of Armadas,
more by luck than English talent, these failed abysmally - the Spanish
were caught out by the weather.

In 1603 Elizabeth I died and the only viable successor was James VI
king of Scotland, who became James I of England. Conveniently he had
been brought up by hard line Protestants in Scotland.

Throughout this period Ireland had remained Catholic, and was regarded
as a threat to England which was thoroughly anti-Catholic.
The new English/Scottish government (well James brought his pals down
with him), came up with a nifty solution.
They settled a large number of Scots in the North of Ireland.

Interestingly those Scots and the Irish were of a similar genetic
background, but nobody bothered to tell them, and DNA tests were not
available.
Like all invaders, they grabbed the best bits for themselves, and
curiously they did not go native.

This link describes the event, but oddly it omits to say that the
settlers were Scottish.
http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/history/events/conflict/bttc1.shtm

In the late 1600's the non-Protestant Irish were visited by friendly
French Catholics with arms, who planned to invade England to install a
Catholic English king, James II, who had a valid claim to the throne,
but had been deposed because he was Catholic and replaced with his
daughter Mary and her husband William of Orange.

Naturally England was not at all impressed, so they launched a large
fleet that docked in friendly Belfast (Northern Ireland) and proceeded
to kick the daylights out of the non-Protestant insurgents.
The Northern Irish Protestants remember this with glee, which is why
they call themselves The Orangemen.
The Catholic Irish were not so happy, and remember the event as an
atrocity, which it was, but to a great extent, they had brought it on
themselves.

Here is an interesting link:
http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/history/events/dates/ch5.shtm

During the 1800's large numbers of Irish emigrated, partly due to the
Potato Famine, partly due to getting jobs in England and ... Scotland.
A lot of those Irish were Catholic, as they were generally the poorer
section of the population.

By WWI there was considerable unrest in Ireland as a good chunk of the
population wanted to break away from England (or more accurately the
United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland).
Most, but not all of the separatists were Catholic, however the
Protestants who were concentrated in the North seriously wanted to
remain part of Britain.

Of course all parties fought together in the British Army in WWII.
After WWII there was something of a rebellion, things were getting out
of hand, and the British sent in troops.

In 1920 the British gave up and divided Ireland into the South, which
became independant, and the North that remained part of the UK.

During WWII there was a bit of worry that Southern Ireland would
assist the Germans, there are stories of re-supplying U-Boats and the
odd commando raid from the UK.  There is also a story that the British
diverted radio beams used to direct German bombers, so the Germans
bombed Southern Ireland.
Regardless of Eire's (S. Ireland) neutrality a lot of Southern Irish
served in the British Army.

Things then settled down until the 1960's.

In Northern Ireland the majority were Protestant, and to be fair they
tended to treat the Catholic minority as second class citizens, it did
not help that they had separate schools, nor that they tended to live
in separate areas.

The IRA re-emerged, supported by some people in Eire, they got rather
good at making bombs and shooting people.  They also got rather a lot
of publicity.

In response, Protestants in Northern Ireland set up a number of
similar organization, and started 'tit for tat' killings.
The British sent in troops to try to calm things down, but they simply
turned into a target. Perhaps things would have been worse if they had
not been there, but the place was getting out of control.

Both Protestant and Catholic 'organizations' got progressively better
at killing each other, and unfortunately both had a need for cash to
finance their operations. A degree of criminality developed amongst
all parties, protection rackets, robberies and drug running.

Such organizations tend to get infiltrated by the security services,
people also tend to get arrested and decide that retirement in return
for a list of names is far preferable to a very long spell in prison.

The jails started filling up with both Republicans (Catholics) and
Loyalists (Protestants) - it has been said that they actually got on
quite well with each other in the internment camps.

By the mid 1990's the British government was getting fed up of the
whole situation and it started putting out peace feelers to the IRA.
Possibly it was the other way round, there is a great deal of
confusion about what really happened
- one version is that an ex(?)priest decided to sort things out single
handedly and pretended to be talking for the Republicans.

Personally I reckon that the whole lot of them were so infiltrated
with informers that the top guys were actually working for the
Inteligence services (MI5 and MI6) and nobody really trusted anyone
anymore.

Besides - they were getting older, and most older guys begin to take
an interest in their grandchildren
- and get nervous about being pushed out by the new young idealists

There is the interesting situation that all the top guys of all the
'organizations' were pretty well known, so the fact that they stayed
alive indicates that there was some sort of deal.

In 2001 on 9/11 there was a real breakthrough, freedom fighting
Republicans and equally freedom fighting Loyalists suddenly turned
into 'terrorists'
- and a large number of States were enthusiastically committed to a
'War against Terrorism'.

Time for all sensible people to duck for respectability, leaving a
residue of lunatics, juveniles and criminals.

The sad thing about the whole affair is that S. Ireland does not
really want N. Ireland, and most people don't much care.
It is like a football match that got out of hand.

As for your friend, my guess is that he is suffering from what happens
to a lot of uniformed soldiers, a combination of confusion, unpleasant
memories and a sense that he probably did things that he seriously
regrets for reasons that he is now uncertain about.
Very much like a lot of Vietnam vets.

He needs to talk things over with somebody who has been through a
similar experience, preferrably someone who has learned to live with
their past.

I've known a number of retired uniformed soldiers (some did not always
wear uniform) and generally they are pretty sound, although they
occasionally talk about strange things
- generally only to people who they reckon will understand.

I also reckon that the amnesty that is going through for the
Republicans applies just as well to the Loyalists, although I also
rather suspect mostly, the UK (and everyone else) would just like to
forget about things.

Good Luck - to both of you
Subject: Re: I.R.A.,SEIN FINN
From: myoarin-ga on 30 Dec 2005 05:21 PST
 
Interested,
If you want to delete a comment, note the number of the question and
then send an email to G-A Editors with the link at the bottom of this
page and ask them to delete the third (your) comment.
Regards, Myoarin

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