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Q: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical? ( No Answer,   7 Comments )
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Subject: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: monzoca-ga
List Price: $2.50
Posted: 30 Dec 2005 10:03 PST
Expires: 04 Jan 2006 14:02 PST
Question ID: 611339
Where did the expression "out of the ashes" originate?  Is it biblical?
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There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: ansel001-ga on 31 Dec 2005 00:56 PST
 
This sounds like it comes from the myth of the phoenix bird that, at
the end of its life, makes a fire and is consumed by it, and from its
ashes springs up a new phoenix.  This may symbolize death and
resurrection.
Subject: Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: myoarin-ga on 31 Dec 2005 06:40 PST
 
Anse is correct.
http://www.eaudrey.com/myth/phoenix.htm

You may have found the expression in relation to the World Trade
Center, but it is also used on sites referring to Hiroshima, New
Orleans and other disasters, and also Christian resurection (and that
of Eastern religions).
Subject: Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: canadianhelper-ga on 31 Dec 2005 08:55 PST
 
Biblical references to "ashes" can be found here:
http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=ashes&qs_version=31

The exact term: "out of the ashes" is not from the bible.  Yet the
concept of rising from decimation can certainly apply.
Subject: Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: frde-ga on 01 Jan 2006 06:33 PST
 
@canadianhelper-ga 

Ahem, 'rising from decimation' ?

One has a 90% chance

Decimation was what they did to Roman Legions (or Centuries) when they
performed particularly badly.

Typically they were lined up on a cliff edge and every 10th soldier
was given a push.

Given that there would be a bit of jostling while lining up, and that
the 'pusher' could have problems counting, also that eighteen guys on
either side of a 'decimee' would enthusiastically support the
decision, it was a pretty safe way of getting rid of dross.

Decimation should be replaced by 'tithing' or 'gentle pruning'
- interestingly, if manipulated as I suspect it was, it would be
something of a morale booster
- surviving a 'cull' is actually a compliment.
Subject: Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: canadianhelper-ga on 01 Jan 2006 07:33 PST
 
frde-

I didn't think that this question was about my choice of words but
instead about the term 'out of the ashes'.

I think the generally accepted concept behind 'decimation'in TODAYS
use is total loss (yes I understand the 1/10 definition and you will
still find it in the dictionary...I am talking about day to day
usage).  English is a language where meanings and usage evolve over
time.  I can refer you to Dictionary.com
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=decimation where you can see
that the meaning has evolved or to M-W
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=decimation
Subject: Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: myoarin-ga on 01 Jan 2006 13:30 PST
 
With respect for Canadianhelper's comments here and elsewhere, I also
stumbled over the word "decimation".  Fred and I must have had to read
Julius Ceasar back when ...
I agree with Fred in preferring the original meaning of the word.  I
cringe when I read about something other than metal or glass container
being described as hermetically sealed.
But I hope we are agreed about "rising from the ashes" (which has
nothing to do with English/Aussie test cricket).

Happy New Year to all, Myoarin
Subject: Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: frde-ga on 03 Jan 2006 00:19 PST
 
I no longer subscribe to the view that a word or phrase means what
most people currently think that it means.

Once I did, but then I realized that it is just a social
discriminator, a neat way of identifying poorly educated people,
rather like bad grammar and lousy spelling.

Since I believe in bringing people up to a standard, rather than
sniggering at them, I reckon that it is wise to broadcast precise
meanings.

One tends to get a reputation as a pedantic didact, but after a bit
people cotton on and appreciate it.

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