can you help me with a coffee drinking dilemma?  I bought an unusual
coffee mug from the Salvation Army recently.  on the bottom it says
"Grun Tal Baferl (or Daferl?)."  Underneath that there's a block with
a small pine tree inside.  Underneath that, the words "Schonwald,
Germany."  on the mug's front is large circle with a perfectly shaped
tree inside (maybe some apples on the tree?)  over the tree are the
words "Im Grun Tal" and what looks to be a paper scroll of some kind
with the words "Wietehauer" on either end of the scroll.  on the tree
trunk are the words "Paulaner Beau."  I'm not positive on the spelling
of these words since the print is very tiny and ornate.  at the top
and bottom edges of the mug are delicate vines with a random leaf here
and there.  I just bought it cause it was pretty and I collect German
dishwear.

I'm not curious if it's worth anything.  I'd just like to know if this
is a drinking cup from a strange Germanic arboreal cult.  can you
please assist me with mein stein translation?

ever grateful,
GB

Hello Granny Bing!

I'm not German, but I lived in Germany for 14 months recently, and
know German fairly well now.  So here are the translations:

"Grun Tal" means "Green Valley" (or "Green Dale", if you prefer), and
"Im Grun Tal" means "In the Green Valley".

"Schonwald" is probably "Schönwald", a town in the Schwarzwald (the
Black Forest).

"Paulaner Beau" is most likely "Paulaner Brau", a type of beer.  (So I
guess the apparent coffee mug is really a beer mug!  As long as it
holds the coffee, I guess that's okay.  :-)  )

I believe that "Baferl" or "Daferl" is actually "Haferl", a south
German word for "mug".

"Wietehauer" is the tricky one.  "Wiete" is a name in German, as is
"Hauer", but I can't find any references to a name or word like
"Wietehauer".  "Hauer" means "tusk", so if the mug is made of
something like ivory, perhaps that is a clue.  "Hauen" can sometimes
mean "to carve", so perhaps "Wietehauer" refers to the carver of the
mug.  Another remote possibility is that "Wiete" is an obscure
regional word for "wheat" (which is usually "Weizen"), and that
"Wietehauer" means "hewer of wheat", which would make sense in the
context of beer.  (Or maybe it's the name of that secret arboreal cult
... you never know ....)

Perhaps one or more of the letters in "Wietehauer" are different than
you think.  Here is a guide to the old German script:

"What Does This Blasted Thing Say?", by Walt Vogdes
Stein Collectors International
http://www.steincollectors.org/library/articles/fraktur/fraktur.htm

If you want to try some translation on your own, here is a good German
dictionary on the Internet:

LEO Englsh/German Dictionary
http://dict.leo.org/

I'm glad I finally got a chance to answer one of your questions.  I
hope that I've met your high standards.

- justaskscott-ga


Search terms used on Google -

to find information on Schönwald:  schönwald

to find a guide to old German script:  fraktur German

---

Request for Answer Clarification by badabing-ga on 16 Sep 2002 22:35 PDT

standards?  oh, dear boy, you make granny howl.  I've already burned
out one researcher with my crazy questions so I thank you for
accepting my budgeteria of questierocity.  lisarea won't even return
my calls.

you did great and ya know that scroll could actually be a tusk. 
granny's failed multiple Rorschachs, dontcha know.

just got back from the pharmacy and I must unpack my Monty Clift-like
suitcase of meds.  I'll look at the letters again with fresh eyes in
the morning, have a go at your linkage, and rate you tomorrow, okay?

cheers from granny b.'s Green Valley

---

Clarification of Answer by justaskscott-ga on 17 Sep 2002 10:29 PDT

I thought that I'd get you with that bit about "high standards". 
Nothing wrong with a little flattery, is there?

Say, here's one more possibility; the "Hauer" part of "Wietehauer"
could be "Bauer", which means "farmer".  So perhaps we're talking
about a wheat farmer.

But if the scroll is really a tusk, that would explain the "Hauer"
part -- though I still wouldn't know what "Wiete" is.  "Miete" means
"rent"; so could this be a rented tusk?  Is that like a rented tux? 
So many questions ....

By the by, I'll be away from the computer screen for most of the next
several days starting Wed. morning; my wife and I are taking a trip to
search for apartments in our hometown-to-be.  I don't want you to
think I'm being strangely silent in response to any follow-ups.

---

Request for Answer Clarification by badabing-ga on 17 Sep 2002 13:18 PDT

yeah, ya got me and thanks for letting me know you're away.  granny,
too, will be...indisposed...till next week.  can we meet up then? 
surely, between the two of us we can figure out this mug mystery.

just to let you know, it really looks like any other regular-sized
coffee mug --not tall like a beer stein at all.  seems to be a high
quality fired (smooth) ceramics of some kind.  mass produced.  nothing
fancy.  no carving or anything.  cost a whole 50 cents.  'course if
it's worth anything, there's a *large* tip in it for you, sonny.

looked at it in the light of day and it's definitely a scroll with
little bends in the paper.  yep, that could be "Mietehauer" instead of
Wieterhauer.  could be a shredded wheat farmer cult for all I know. 
barley?  hops?  a certain kind grown in the Green Valley maybe?

okay, gotta dash.  granny's not through with you though, Scott.  let's
grok this a few more days, shall we?  you know how strange things like
this are critical to granny's well being and keep her up at night.

---

Clarification of Answer by justaskscott-ga on 17 Sep 2002 16:39 PDT

OK, we'll meet again.  By next week, perhaps my detective hat will
arrive (metaphorically speaking) and then I can solve the
W(M?)iete(r?)h(?)auer mystery.  (Or maybe one of the other
German-knowing researchers will come along and solve it for us.)

---

Request for Answer Clarification by badabing-ga on 18 Sep 2002 08:00 PDT

wouldn't that be nice if one would float by and answer this and put us
out of our mug mystery misery?  I'll keep my fingers crossed.  every
time that mug makes its way into the rotation, I find myself staring
at the tree until I'm almost hypnotized.  I think it may have magical
powers.

in the meantime, you concentrate on finding you and your wife a lovely
home.  that's a *major* deal.  granny will persevere in her craziness
till we can kick this around some more.  thanks, Scott!

smokin' the wicked white wheat,
GB

---

Clarification of Answer by justaskscott-ga on 25 Sep 2002 14:16 PDT

OK, I'm back.  (We did find a home -- it's not big, but it looks
comfortable.)

The only new idea I have was sparked by the comment about "s" looking
like "t".  "Wiesehauer" does not seem likely, but it could be
"Wiesenauer".  Wiesenauer is a reasonably common name, and perhaps it
has something to do with the beer mug.

Intriguingly, there seems to be a Wiesenauer Spezial beer, from the
town of Wiesenau.

"Verzeichnis obergäriger Biermarken: Alt - Kölsch - Obergärig hell
oder dunkel", by Philipp Graß
Gestatten ... Ingrid & Philipp Graß
http://www.koelnergruppe.mynetcologne.de/ober.htm

However, Wiesenau is on the other side of the country, in Brandenburg,
so I doubt that Wiesenauer beer has anything to do with the mug.

"Wiesenau"
meinestadt.de
http://www.meinestadt.de/wiesenau/home

I'll let you know if I have any new inspirations.  In the meantime,
happy drinking (of coffee, Bier, or what-have-you)!


Search terms used:

wiesenauer
wiesenauer bier
wiesenau

a veritable pit bull of a researcher.  how I love that in a man! 
without a doubt you've met my "high standards," now go cool off and
enjoy your lovely new home.  granny will chase down your leads and
think of you every time she uses her mug.  now if I could just somehow
suck you thru this machine to fix my leaky kitchen faucet...  Great
job, my boy!!

Maybe the "Wietehauer" is actually "Wiesehauer" or something like
that? German Fraktur "long s" might look like a "t".

I am not a researcher, but I am from Bavaria, Germany and I think I
may have found a solution to the "Wietehauer" mystery.
It seems that the mug you bought is indeed a coffee mug.
I found that Schoenwald (with an umlaut 'o') is actually a german
porcelain manufacturer specialized in hotel and restaurant porcelain.
htttp://www.schoenwald.com
Their logo is a pine tree, so this fits your description.

As for the "Im Gruen Tal" (again, with an umlaut 'u'),
there is a restaurant and beer garden in Munich, Bavaria, called
"Wirtshaus im Gruen Tal".
http://www.munichtoday.de/munichtour/biergaerten/gruental/e_gruental.htm

The following picture shows the circle with the tree, their "logo":
http://www.munichtoday.de/munichtour/biergaerten/gruental/photos_2.htm

Is this the tree on your mug?

Could "Wietehauer" be "Wirtshaus"?

Finally, as for the "Paulaner Braeu", each restaurant in Germany
usually has a contract with a certain brewery, in this case, the
"Paulaner" Brewery, which is also located in Munich.

A "Haferl" is definitely used for coffee, so it appears you own a
coffee mug from the "Wirtshaus im Gruen Tal" beer garden in Munich.

OH...MY...GOD!!  you've found it, you dear person, you!  that is
indeed the tree symbol on my mug.  I cannot *believe* you've solved my
mystery.  I had a feeling it would take a *local* to tell me the
history on this mug and I'm absolutely delighted you tracked this down
for me, hanni42.  thank you *SO* much!  I think you'd better sign on
to become a researcher soon. ;-)  BTW, grannyb's grandparents come
from Bavaria.  would love to visit there sometime.

thanks everyone for helping!
GB

Great work, hanni42!  If I deserved 5 stars, you truly deserve 10!

I hope that you post more comments on Google Answers, and perhaps try
to become a researcher.  I know a couple of people who started by
posting comments, and are now stellar Google Answers researchers.

Well, thank you! :)
Glad I could help!

As for becoming a researcher, hmmm... tempting.
I'd love to, on the other hand I am spending too much time on the
internet
already ;-) I'll think about it, the Google Answers FAQ says they are
currently not accepting new applications anyway.
Anyhow, I think Google Answers is a great and very useful service.

A little off-topic: Bavaria *is* very nice, you should really come and
see it
some time, grannyb.

I live in Nuremberg, home of the well-known "Christkindlesmarkt"
(Christmas
Market) which takes place every year in December. You can buy
christmas
ornaments, gingerbread and some delicious "Gluehwein" (mulled wine)
there.
And you get to keep the cup! ;-)
http://www.christkindlesmarkt.de/markt_live/galerie04/galerie07.htm
http://www.christkindlesmarkt.de/markt_live/e_virtual_tour.html

FYI, some general info on Bavaria:
http://www.bayern.by/baytm_english.html

Have a nice week everybody,

Hanni