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Subject:
Searching internet for Mathematical formulae
Category: Science > Math Asked by: ponderer-ga List Price: $5.00 |
Posted:
24 Sep 2002 02:00 PDT
Expires: 24 Oct 2002 02:00 PDT Question ID: 68347 |
Say I know that on the web there are 50 academic papers which prove some mathematical statement to be true. In this case I was trying to prove (unsuccessfully) that Y= 2 + d + ((2+d)/d)^d is always greater than or equal to 0 for delta between 0 and 1. Now I don't need or expect an answer to this problem, but I want information generally on is there a smart way to search for math formulae on the internet. The first problem is that it will likely be either 1a) formatted in a PDF not as pure text or 1b) as text split over multiple lines which makes it 'visually' easy to read but unsearchable also The second problem is 2) It is quite likely that someone else may have proved it and just named the variables differently. I want information and ideas (perhaps from someone with experience with these types of searches) on how to effectively search the internet for a mathematical formula or proof. |
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Subject:
Re: Searching internet for Mathematical formulae
Answered By: eiffel-ga on 24 Sep 2002 09:32 PDT Rated: |
Hi ponderer, As you have found, it is usually difficult to locate a mathematical formula using an internet search engine. You have pointed out a number of reasons why this is so. In addition, it is made more difficult by the way in which the search engine processes the text of a web page before indexing it. During the process of indexing the web, the search engine transforms the text by discarding symbols (such as "="), removing formatting (such as superscripts and subscripts), transforming words to their case-insensitive form, combining repeated single letters, etc. The same transformations are applied to the search query that you type in, before the search engine reports matching pages. The effect of these transformations can be seen by searching for the your equation, surrounded by quote marks: "Y= 2 d ((2 d)/d)^d" ://www.google.com/search?q=%22Y%3D+2+d+%28%282+d%29%2Fd%29%5Ed%22 The one document returned does have an equation featuring the symbols "Y, 2, d, 2, d, d, d" in that order - but it's a completely different equation. There is a symbol-based equation search engine on the web, but it's mostly loaded with physics equations: EQNDB http://www.eqndb.com/ If you type into the "Symbol" search box the following text pi rho you will receive a list of equations that include the symbols pi and rho. There are also a number of specialized mathematical search engines, although they are primarily designed to help with mathematical research: Google Web Directory: Science -> Math -> Publications -> Search Engines http://directory.google.com/Top/Science/Math/Publications/Search_Engines/ So what's the best way to locate a mathematical formula or proof? You need to know its name, or its field of applicability. Then, you will get useful search results from queries like these: "proof of pythagoras theorem" ://www.google.com/search?q=%22proof+of+pythagoras+theorem%22 "equation of a plane" ://www.google.com/search?q=%22equation+of+a+plane%22 "how to apply stokes theorem" ://www.google.com/search?q=%22how+to+apply+stokes+theorem%22 Notice the use of quote marks in the search queries. These ensure that the quoted words appear together in the documents located by the search engine. See also how additional words like "proof of" and "how to apply" can help to narrow down the search results. Supposing you don't know the name of the equation that you want to locate? Then, you need to start at a general math site. A good starting point for students is Math Forum: The Math Forum Home Page http://mathforum.org/ From here you can search math sites Math Forum Search Page http://mathforum.org/grepform.html or browse and search the "Internet Mathemetics Library" Math Forum Internet Mathematics Library http://mathforum.org/library/ or visit "Ask Dr. Math" The Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math http://mathforum.org/dr.math/ where you can browse previous answers and post your own questions. Doctor Math answers questions in a very readable way and can help to make complex topics much more approachable. The Dr. Math Frequently Asked Questions list is a place to find answers to all those niggling math concepts that you never quite fully understood: The Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math FAQ http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/ If you're seeking something a little more interactive, Discovery School's Webmath has an interactive problem solver. You key in your problem, and are presented with a worked solution, step-by-step. There are solver applications for numbers, measurement, geometry, trigonometry, calculus, statistics, algebra and more. For example, you could select "Solving Linear Equations" and ask for a worked solution to "4m+3m-8=4n+5n-15", solved for 'm' or 'n': Webmath offers math homework help ... http://school.discovery.com/homeworkhelp/webmath/index.html If you need to broaden your search further, there are some more great math sites listed in the Google Web Directory - just start at the following entry: Google Web Directory: Science -> Math http://directory.google.com/Top/Science/Math/ Google search strategy: "math search" ://www.google.com/search?client=googlet&q=%22math%20search%22 Regards, eiffel-ga |
ponderer-ga
rated this answer:
Thanks for your help, good thoughts and ideas - what I was looking. Interesting about how the search engine transforming the text before indexing it. Quite thorough. |
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Subject:
Re: Searching internet for Mathematical formulae
From: math_man-ga on 24 Sep 2002 06:39 PDT |
If you can't prove that "Y= 2 + d + ((2+d)/d)^d is always greater than or equal to 0 for delta between 0 and 1." on your own you are going to have a difficult time understanding any other proof. You probably need to get some basic calculus books and start looking over some proofs there. If you insist on searching the web, search by a topic not by a formula, you can usually find a related proof that can used to find the proof you are looking for. |
Subject:
Re: Searching internet for Mathematical formulae
From: ponderer-ga on 24 Sep 2002 17:19 PDT |
Dear math_man, Showing that 2 + d + ((2+d)/d)^d is always greater than or equal to 0 for delta between 0 and 1, turns out to be a much more difficult problem than one might expect. I am completing graduate studies in econometrics, and was trying to help out my colleague with a PhD in mathematics to show this. We spent 6 hours on it unsuccessfully. We have something now that is quite nasty, 3 separate proofs for 3 different ranges of delta spanning 0-1. It is easy to verify it is true for any particular delta between 0 or 1, but the derivative isn't able to be easily signed either. Its clearly true, as can be seen by plotting the graph, but that unfortunately is not a mathematical proof... |
Subject:
Re: Searching internet for Mathematical formulae
From: just4look-ga on 24 Sep 2002 18:48 PDT |
Dear ponderer-ga, The proof of this problem is direct since all terms in the right hand side are positive, which can be proved from their definitions. The most advanced one is about the definition of the exponential, which can be found in elementary mathematics books. If you have more questions, please let me know. Just4look A person has one Ph. D in math, 2 master degrees in math and applied math(statistics and operations research). A person who had taught in universities for about 15 years. |
Subject:
Re: Searching internet for Mathematical formulae
From: ponderer-ga on 24 Sep 2002 19:28 PDT |
OK math_man I owe you an apology... I just read just4look's comment and realised that I misrecalled the problem here, its been a few days since I spent the whole night working on it in frustration. I should have said Y = 2 + d - ((2+d)/d)^d No wonder math_man looked at the problem and considered it obvious... as just4look points out, it would be elementary as originally posted, since all the terms would obviously be positive by inspection. Sincerely, ponderer |
Subject:
Re: Searching internet for Mathematical formulae
From: just4look-ga on 24 Sep 2002 22:27 PDT |
Then the question becomes a little more difficult, but I can solve it. I am curious that how you determine the price. Do you think that a solution which you and your colleague with a PhD in mathematics couldn't figure out in six hours only worth $5? Just4look |
Subject:
Re: Searching internet for Mathematical formulae
From: ponderer-ga on 26 Sep 2002 17:01 PDT |
just4look, Re: the price Well actually I never intended to actually post the question itself (just the searching query), it was just that math_man commented that it was easy/obvious, which I thought was a strong claim considering the amount of time I had spent on it. So I thought what the heck if he thinks its _obvious_ then i'll post it as a $5 question and see if he can answer it. Of course as it turned out, I had posted the question incorrectly, which explained why he had said it was obvious. Because it WAS obvious as originally posted. So once I realised my mistake I was going to close the question (not expecting anyone to solve it), but it was locked and then before I knew it... there was an answer. Regards, Ponderer |
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