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Q: second world war ( Answered,   2 Comments )
Subject: second world war
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: davidbd-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 30 Sep 2002 04:31 PDT
Expires: 30 Oct 2002 03:31 PST
Question ID: 70711
please supply information on designer L.E. Baynes who helped (I
believe) redesign the lancaster bomber for the 617 raid over the
German Dams during the second world war.
Also any other inforamtion on him and his work.
I believe he was mentioned in a book by Paul Brickhill.
Subject: Re: second world war
Answered By: johnny_phoenix-ga on 30 Sep 2002 06:23 PDT

I actually think that you may be getting L.E.Baynes and “Barnes”
Wallis mixed up here.

The Lancaster Bomber
The original Lancaster Bomber was designed by Roy Chadwick and was an
adapted design from one of his earlier creations the “Manchester

Chadwick redesigned the wings to take four engines rather than the two
that the earlier design allowed.

The Dambusters
When 617 squadron is mentioned, it is commonly referred to as the
Dambusters Squadron, led by Guy Gibson, the Lancaster Bombers had the
famous bouncing bomb on board designed by Barnes Wallis.

I think it may be Barnes Wallis that you are getting mixed up with as
he was the main designer involved in the refitting of the 617
squadrons payload and also the designer of the bouncing bomb.

Paul Brickhill
Paul Brickhill has wrote many of the famous accounts from the second
world war including “Reach for the Sky” the tale of  Douglas Bader,
which I highly recommend by the way, he has written “The Great Escape”
and of course “The Dam Busters”. It is probably in this book that Mr
L.E. Baynes gets a mention.

If you want to buy his Book click this link.

Mr Baynes, was a sail-plane designer who most famously wanted to put
wings on tanks to get them onto the battlefield.

For this purpose he designed the ill-fated “Bat” . I say ill fated,
because although a prototype was built it never really “took off”
pardon the pun.

It may well be that Paul Brickhill mentioned him retrospectively in
the book of the Dambusters. From my investigation, it certainly
doesn’t appear that he had anything to do with a redesign of 617
squadron, the primary reason being that the aircarft itself did not
need to be redesigned merely refitted with the new payload.

You can find out more about L.E.Baynes here

Story of the Bat

Johnny Phoenix

Request for Answer Clarification by davidbd-ga on 30 Sep 2002 08:31 PDT
Thank you for your reply but it did in fact contain nothing that I
hadn't already find via Google by myself!
L.E. Baynes was my Uncle and I am not confusing him with Barnes Wallis
who was a great firend of his.
L.E. Baynes was a designer of many things and was involved in the Dam
Busters raid. I am looking for a passage about him in a paul brickhill
book where he was 'forced' to fly in a 'plane that he had partly
Due to his great fear of flying it was an amusing passage and I wanted
to include it in a book I am writing about the family.

Clarification of Answer by johnny_phoenix-ga on 01 Oct 2002 01:14 PDT
Hi, no disrespect but your question has now changed completely from
the one first posed. At first you said you "believed" that he helped
redesign the Lancaster Bomber and you wanted information on him and
his work.

In your recent request for answer clarification you now say its
actually the passage from the Paul Brickhill book that you are looking
for, regarding a specific passage about being forced to fly in a plane
he had partially redesigned. This is obviously pertinent information
and would have set us off on a different path of research.

It wuld be helpful for future reference, if you include all
information that you have and specify from the outset what your goal
is, purely as this will assist in researching the right information
and be able to provide you with all the information that you actually

The reason, I know a lot about the background to the dambusters raids
is that my grandfather's cousin was Guy Gibson, so its obviously been
something that i have looked into in some detail in the past.

Have you read the Dambusters by Paul Brickhill?

Request for Answer Clarification by davidbd-ga on 01 Oct 2002 02:56 PDT
Hi Johnny, no disrespect taken... I did though mention that he was in
a Brickhill (I thought it was the Dam Busters) and have since found a
copy of it and also a copy of Guy Gibson's book, but there is no
reference to him in either book.
My Brother and I have both read this piece about him and cannot for
the life of us remember where... both of us could have sworn it was in
one of the two.
Did Gibson write another book before his death?
Meantime thank you for your information!

Clarification of Answer by johnny_phoenix-ga on 01 Oct 2002 04:32 PDT
The only book i have any record of him writing was "Enemy Coast Ahead"
which is presumably the one you already have....we are the wrong side
of the family to receive royalties for that i'm

Other than that, i must admit defeat and hope at least the time i have
put in on this one, might assist someone else to take up the banner
and find the passage from the book that you are after.

Johnny Phoenix
Subject: Re: second world war
From: answerfinder-ga on 30 Sep 2002 10:44 PDT
Dear davidbd-ga 
I did some research on this as well. You may wish to view: The site is in
French but contains reference to your uncle and a drawing of a
vertical take-off aircraft -VTOL designed by him.
I notice at the Brooklands Museum site there is reference to a HFZ
Abbott-Baynes Scud I (replica) [BGA.3922]
Subject: Re: second world war
From: nigelweb-ga on 01 Aug 2004 17:37 PDT
=============== For general information: 
L E Baynes AFRAeS... most famous for: inventor and held international
patents for first Swing Wing Aircraft (variable sweep).
Chronology (summary): 1919 patented first automatic variable pitch
airscrew, 1924-27 responsible for aerodynamic design of Short
'Singapore' Flying-Boat, 1929-30 Designs and manufactured first all
British glider to soar... Scud I. 1933-35 Scud II sailplanes; British
height record holder and international event winner. 1936 Designed and
built Scud III; first retractable and motored sailplane. 1937 Designed
and built first twin-engine pusher monoplane with wing-buried engines.
1939 Project designed 'gas turbine system' 100 passenger long-range
aircraft (for ref. see 'Gas Turbines and Jet Propulsion for Aircraft'
by Geoffrey Smith 1942). 1938 Designed and patented first V/TOL swivel
turbine 'Heliplane' . 1939-45 Designed and built for M.O.S.
experimental tail-less flying wing (Baynes Bat) for tank carrying
project (initiated by Churchill) , Designed and implemented conversion
of Boston Bombers to search-light aircraft, submarine guided missiles
and other weapons and equipment for the RAF. 1946-48 Designed and
built for M.O.S. High-Lift Research Aircraft. 1949 Designed and
patented the first Variable-Sweep Fighter Aircraft for supersonic
flight. 1950-62 Designed and manufactured airliner equipment for major
aircraft companies and airlines. 1963-64 Designed and patented a
high-speed hydrofoil sea craft (made secret by the ministry).

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