Last September I gave these people $20K for an online store as a home
business, beleiving every word they said. Only to find not just myself
but also numerous others. none of us have made any money even after
paying for a search engine and clicks. December I received close to
20,000 hits no sales. Know they want to change to micro sites at a
cost of $4995 for each, and they state soon this price will increase
to $7500 each, I have been in contact with others who tell the story
and read on the scam sites about others.They advertise being BBB
members and find that not true, they have todate 33 complaints against
them. They also have numerous ads pages running on the web. Is this a
fraud/scam busines?

fransue-ga,

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with AWSM Technology, and I hope
the information provided here can help you sort things out with them.

From what I can tell, they are indeed a legitimate company.  

However, they are not at all 'transparent' -- that is, it is a very
tough company to dig up any information about, other than what they
themselves present on their website.  That lack of transparency always
throws up a red flag in the back of my mind.  But it doesn't
necessarily mean that they are a scam, or a particularly bad company
to do business with.

It is difficult, however, to figure out exactly what their business
model is, and how they -- or you -- can earn money through their
operations.

Let me walk through some of the tidbits of information I was able to
uncover about AWSM Technology, and the principle players behind it. 
Hopefully, these will help you to expand the scope of your contacts
with the company, and find a way to resolve your complaints with them.


First step is a whois search for the registrants of the various AWSM sites:



http://www.whois.sc/awsmtechnology.com

Registrant Contact:
   AWSM Technology, LLC
   Josh McKillip
   webmaster@adforsight.com
   +1.6022528488    
   7250 N. 16th Street, Suite 402
   Phoenix,  AZ 85016
   


The phone here is answered as AWSM Technology, so you can certainly
contact the company at this number, if you haven't tried that route
already.  Note that there is a rather impersonal email contact as
well, which you might also want to try.


The company's other sites contain similar information, although the
names of individuals vary a bit:





http://www.whois.sc/awsmads.com

Registrant Contact:
   Ad Forsight, LLC
   Matt O'Brien 
   webmaster@adforsight.com
   +1.6022528488
   Fax: none
   7250 N. 16th Street, Suite 402
   Phoenix,  85024
   US



http://www.whois.sc/awsmoutlets.com

Registrant Contact:
   AWSM Technology, LLC
   Josh McKillip
   webmaster@adforsight.com
   +1.6022528488
   Fax:
   7250 N. 16th Street, Suite 402
   Phoenix,  85016



As you can see from their email address, AWSM Technology also does
business as Ad Forsight (sometimes written as Ad For'Sight), and a
whois search on that name turns up a familiar listing, though they use
Network Solutions (a domain name company) as a mailing address, rather
than their AZ address:


http://www.whois.sc/adforsight.com

Registrant:
AWSM Technology LLC
ATTN: ADFORSIGHT.COM
   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact

      McKillip, Josh                      
      AWSM Technology, LLC
      ATTN: ADFORSIGHT.COM
      c/o Network Solutions
      P.O. Box 447
      Herndon, VA 20172-0447
      570-708-8780

===============


You mentioned that you alrady had a look at their BBB report, but I
thought a second look was worthwhile:



http://www.data.bbb.org/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=phoenix/phoenix/showrpt.html?zid=9001917
BBB Reliability Report
AWSM TECHNOLOGY LLC

7500 N. Dreamy Draw Drive #212
Phoenix, AZ 85020


Original Business Start Date: 01/01/93
Type of Entity: Corporation
Principal: Matthew O'Brien, President/CEO
Customer Service Contact: Mike Karber, In House Counsel
Phone Number: 602-393-2001
Fax Number: 602-252-8588
Email Address: mkarber@awsmtechnology.com
Web Site Address: www.awsmTechnology.com
www.adforsight.com
www.awsmSiteMap.com
Membership Status: no


"...Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with
the Bureau due to unanswered complaints..."

ADDITIONAL BUSINESS NAMES

This company also does business as:
AD FORSIGHT, LLC.

ADDITIONAL TELEPHONE NUMBERS

Additional phone numbers for this company include:
(188) 877-1297
(602) 252-8488
(888) 771-2976.



ADDITIONAL ADDRESSES

Additional addresses for this company include:

1700 N. 7th Avenue #260, Phoenix, AZ 85007

7250 N. 16th Street, #402, Phoenix, AZ 85020.


Note that the BBB record identifies an individual (Mike Karber) as the
Customer Service Contact, and provides email and other contact
information -- you should certainly give this a try, if you haven't
already.


By the way, you mentioned that AWSM Technology had indicated to you
that they were a member of the BBB (which they are not, as you know). 
I didn't see any such indication on their websites, though.  Where did
you come across their mention of being a BBB member?



===============


Since AWSM Technology has an Arizona address, I checked a couple of
relevant state government sites, including the site for the Attorney
General's Office, which notes, rather unhelpfully:


=====
http://www.azag.gov/consumer/

The complaint process, by law, is confidential, therefore this office
cannot reveal complaints or investigations against a particular
company or merchant.
=====


So...if any complaints have been filed with the AG's office, you
certainly won't find out about through their website.

However, you CAN file a complaint yourself, if you feel that is
warranted.  The site has an online form for this, and some guidance as
well:



=====
http://www.azag.gov/consumer/complaintformintro.html
Arizona Attorney General's Consumer Complaint Form


...If you believe you have been the victim of consumer fraud, you
should first contact the company in writing and specifically request
the relief that you feel is appropriate.

...It is often best to file your complaint directly with a state or
federal agency charged with regulating the person or business who is
the subject of your complaint. In addition to filing a complaint
directly with the regulatory agency, you can also file a complaint
online with the Arizona Attorney General's Office.
=====


Businesses also register with the state's Corporation Commission, so I
checked there as well:


http://starpas.azcc.gov/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=wsbroker1/main.p
Arizona Corporation Commission
State of Arizona Public Access System


and found the registrations for:


L11378579 AWSM OUTLETS, L.L.C. 

L11378568 AWSM TECHNOLOGY, L.L.C. 






The information is similar for both names, and contains an interesting twist:



=====
http://starpas.azcc.gov/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=wsbroker1/names-detail.p?name-id=L11378568&type=L.L.C.
AWSM TECHNOLOGY, L.L.C.

Officer and Director Information Name: GRAMERCY COMMERCIAL HOLDINGS L 
Title: MEMBER 
Address: PO BOX 11 
  MAIN ST 
  CHARLES TOWN NEVIS,  XX  xxxxxxxxx 
Date Assigned: 06/11/2004 
=====


Hmmm.  AWSM appears to be owned or operated or otherwise strongly
affiliated with a holding company located in Nevis, in the Caribbean.

There's nothing inherently wrong with this.  Nevis is supposed to be
lovely, and it affords strong legal and privacy protections for
companies registered there.  However, there is no way that I know of
to get any additional information on Gramercy Commercial Holding. 
Through a Google search, it only appears in conjunction with AWSM.  I
saw no indication that the holding company is 'holding' anything other
than AWSM.





A Google search also turned up this press release from 2005, which
again gives credence to the viability of AWSM as a 'real' company with
a real business:


=====
http://www.crm2day.com/news/crm/115885.php
AWSM Technology Finds Entellium CRM Excellent; Usability Propels
Entellium Past Salesforce.com for Web-Marketing Company
11 October 2005


...Entellium ( http://www.entellium.com ) today announced that AWSM
Technology has selected Entellium's hosted CRM suite for its sales,
customer service and marketing teams. More than 50 employees will use
Entellium to manage leads and opportunities through the sales process,
handle customer service inquiries, as well as to run and manage
marketing campaigns.

...AWSM Technology cited usability as a key reason for selecting Entellium. 

..."Entellium was the only provider that gave our sales, service and
marketing employees a view of customer data that is relevant to their
job function," said Matt O'Brien, president and CEO of AWSM
Technology. "Salesforce.com and the other applications we considered
had a much more complicated user interface, which we believed would
make them harder to learn and use. Entellium's clean interface and
automation features convinced us they were the right choice."



About AWSM Technology 

AWSM (Advanced Web Site Marketing) Technology is a software licensing
company that utilizes proprietary leading edge Internet technology for
marketing and advertising campaigns. The company's core solution,
coupled with live metrics and comprehensive analytics, bring
consistent results to online marketing campaigns. Additionally, the
company's diverse community of members and consumers bring immediate
results to businesses that are looking to qualify leads and increase
sales. The AWSM management team offers years of proven experience in
the planning, creative and development areas of online commerce. This
broad background coupled with major Internet industry partners and
sponsors positions AWSM Technology as a significant leader within the
online marketing and e-commerce space. For more information, please
visit http://www.awsmtechnology.com

=====


One of their sites also mentions some pretty heavy hitters:


http://www.awsmads.com/aboutus.asp
About Us

...AWSM has been instrumental in achieving sales growth strategies for
Circle K, Cobre Tire/Bridgestone, Motorola, ConocoPhillips and Billy
Blanks' Tae Bo.


If they are making this up, they are inviting some bigtime lawsuits
from some very powerful entities...I suspect that they really do
business with these companies.



===============


Several of their sites mentioned that terms like AWSM! were registered
trademarks, so I checked with the US Trademark Office, and uncovered
some pretty useful information:


http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=8qea6m.2.1

Word Mark AWSM! 

AWSM (Advanced Web Site Marketing) is software and a proprietary
process for marketing and advertising web sites online and offline

Filing Date January 20, 2005 

(APPLICANT) AWSM Technology LLC Dale Merritt, USA Matthew O'Brien, USA
Christopher Bown, USA Thomas Wagner, USA Susan Maunders, USA LTD LIAB
CO ARIZONA Suite 402 7250 North 16th Street Phoenix ARIZONA 85020

Trademark/Service Mark Application, Principal Register
Serial Number: 78551124
Filing Date: 01/20/2005 



CORRESPONDENCE SECTION 
NAME AWSM Technology LLC 
INTERNAL ADDRESS Suite 402 
STREET 7250 North 16th Street 
CITY Phoenix 
STATE AZ 
ZIP/POSTAL CODE 85020 
COUNTRY United States 
EMAIL mobrien@awsmtechnology.com 


In case you missed it, the listing provides the names of company
principles, and the email address of Matthew O'Brien, the company
president:


mobrien@awsmtechnology.com 


You'll certainly want to contact Mr. O'Brien, I would think, if you
don't find satisfaction through your other contacts.

By the way, the general email scheme for the company seems to be first
initial-last name @awmstechnology.com, in case you want to try
emailing any of the other contacts at the company.


==========


Need additional information?

You can purchase a Dun and Bradstreet report on Ad ForSight:


http://smallbusiness.dnb.com/


Just search for [ ad forsight ] and under 'State', select Arizona.



AD FORSIGHT, INC. 
1700 N 7th Ave Ste 101
Phoenix,  AZ  


Dun and Bradtreet offers a number of different types of reports,
starting at about $10, and ranging up into the hundreds.  I've never
purchased one myself, so I can't directly vouch for their utility, but
the reports are widely used in business:

Comprehensive Insight Plus Report
List Price: $139.99

Company Profile Report
List Price: $9.99

...and so on.





By the way, I also conducted quite a comprehensive search on Google,
in newspaper databases, and in legal databases, to look for any
information on lawsuits or complaints regarding any of the various
company names that AWSM operates under, or any of the principles
associated with the companies.  Much to my surprise, nothing turned up
in the way of overt problems.  I did not come across any lawsuits.

Perhaps it's a case of no news is good news.


Again, I hope you are able to work out your problems with this company.

If there is anything else I can do for you, let me know by posting a
Request for Clarification, and I'm at your service.


Thanks,

pafalafa-ga

---

Request for Answer Clarification by fransue-ga on 04 Apr 2006 11:26 PDT

I apologise as it appears I asked some of the wrong questions.
I have made contact with the AZ. BBB, AZ Attorney Generals office and
the Federal trade Commission in DC. To no avail. I sent a further
email to BBB with attachments on there use of BBB and what awsm states
as setting up a BBB site map. BBB has not had a response from awsm for
two weeks.
I have spoken with a Phoenix attorney and sent them copies of
information I have aquired and they seem to think this is a fraud case
but need further details. To retain this attorney for a case like this
would cost in the region of $25-30K. So as you see I need to find as
much information as I can, not just for myself but others as well.I hd
read about there involvement with CRM in 05 also there involment with
Vstore.com in 04.
In awsm ads they ask for an initial $99-95 from there they then give a
very impressive talk on how marvelous awsm is and how they can make us
a lot of money
by buying more ads. Strongly talking on there great new technology
which they had and how google and others were after it. stating terms
like 300% profits in a short period of time. How they could put us at
the top of search engine rankings (page 1 & 2)How there spider web
system would draw customers like a magnet to all major search engines
with superior adwords.
I have noticed they do not give any written information to there
affiliates or send emails, everthing is verbal, also there invoices
give little to no information.
Google is a leader and a company to be trusted,please explain a microsite.
also if a company like overstock.com etc. requires just a free
membership with your own website and putting in your own links to
others. Why does awsm require all this money? Do you know why there
technology is so special? Can 6 or 7 thousand people use this awsm
system and make money doing nothing?
In what sense are they a legitimate company?

On my speaking with awsm on numerous occasions I was always told be
patient, our server is down, we've had a bigger response than
anticipated and have to employ further staff, we have to wait to see
our sales reports and so on.
In December I spoke with Matt O'brien who was very insulting and
offered me a microsite to apease me. I declined his offer. Also stated
there outlet store did not work as intended but micro sites would earn
money in 3 to 4 months.
What does awsm have that makes others want it?

If any other charges are accrued please notify me asap.
Sincerely,
Frank

---

Clarification of Answer by pafalafa-ga on 04 Apr 2006 12:30 PDT

Frank,

I'd love to be able to help you on this one, as I hate to see someone
lose a big chunk of money on a questionable operation like you
described.

Unfortunately, there is really very little information available on
just what AWSM does, and how they operate.  As I noted above, they are
not a very 'transparent' company.

In fact, you probably have more of that sort of information than
anyone, since you've been through a lot of communications with them
already.

One area where I might be able to help, though.  You mentioned that
you've been in touch with an attorney, who thinks this might be fraud,
but needs more details.

Please find out *exactly* what sort of details the attorney needs to have. 

As I mentioned earlier, I did not see any lawsuits directed at AWSM,
though that certainly doesn't mean they haven't been threatened with
such suits.  Perhaps the mere threat of a suit -- i.e., a letter from
your attorney -- would be enough to get some action from AWSM.

Anyway, once you know precisely what information your attorney needs,
let me know, and perhaps I can track some of it down.

Get back to me at any time if you feel there is anything more I can do
for you on this.

Best of luck,

paf

---

Request for Answer Clarification by fransue-ga on 25 Apr 2006 10:58 PDT

Hi,
Hope you can help on this one.
Awsm state they do work for fortune 500 hundred companies, they have
mentioned some names, do you know how I could contact these companies,
who to contact, what departments? so they can be approached. I have
the attorney working on 8 possible charges, but still need to get
further information.
Thanks for your help, Frank

---

Clarification of Answer by pafalafa-ga on 25 Apr 2006 11:33 PDT

Hello Frank.  I'm glad to hear you're sticking with this, and I wish
you the best of luck.

If AWSM used the names of Fortune 500 companies in a misleading way,
then the companies would certainly like to know about it.  In
particular, their copyright/trademark corporate counsel would be the
ones to contact about this.

If you let me know which companies are of most interest to you, I can
try to track down the relevant contact information for corporate
counsel.  HOWEVER, I doubt that any corporation would actually confirm
for you that they did or didn't do business with AWSM, nor would they
likely tell you if they are filing a complaint over the use of their
names.  In my experience, companies tend to keep that sort of
information to themselves, no matter how badly you may need it.

I did a thorough search through newspaper and magazine files for any
articles that mention AWSM, or their other business names (Ad
Forsight, Advance Web Site Marketing, AWSM Technology).  Only one
company shows up as being an actual business partner of AWSM, and that
is Entellium:


http://www.entellium.com/press/Entellium_AWSM_Technology.pdf
AWSM Technology Finds Entellium CRM Excellent


The press contact listed for Entellium is:


Entellium Press Contact:
John Williams, Scoville PR
Tel: 206-829-1392
jwilliams@scovillepr.com


but again, I consider it not very likely that they would reveal any
specifics about AWSM.


I hope that's of some help.  I'll await any follow-up from you as to
other companies, and as always, remain ready to assist you however I
can.


Good luck.


paf

---

Request for Answer Clarification by fransue-ga on 01 May 2006 10:52 PDT

Circle K, Cobre Tire/Bridgestone, Motorola, ConocoPhillips and Billy
Blanks' Tae Bo.
These are a few companies awsm say they work with.
I have now been told awsm using adsense are being denied by google,
how does awsm work with google? as awsm use the google name often in
their sales pitch,
Frank.

---

Clarification of Answer by pafalafa-ga on 02 May 2006 11:47 PDT

Frank,


I've compiled the contact information for the companies you mentioned.
 Where available, I've included direct contact information for the
legal department, but for the most part, the contact information
available was for all types of public queries:



Circle K
http://www.circlek.com/CircleK/ContactUs.aspx
[there is a contact form you can use at the above link]




Bridgestone/Cobre
http://www.bridgestoneamericas.com/


Bridgestone Americas Holding, Inc.
535 Marriott Drive. 
Nashville, TN 37214 
Phone: 615-937-1000
Fax: 615-937-3621

 



Motorola
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=90829&p=irol-transferagent

Legal Counsel
Peter Lawson, Secretary
Motorola, Inc.
1303 East Algonquin Road
Schaumburg, IL 60196 U.S.A. 
+1 847-576-5000




ConocoPhillips
http://wh.conocophillips.com/utilities/contactus.asp?cid=contacts1
[contact form]



Billy Blanks Tae Bo
http://www.billyblanks.com/homepage.asp


BILLY BLANKS 
P.O. BOX 5255
CLIFTON, NJ 07015-5255
1-800-461-0470 
customerservice@billyblanks.com




As for Google itself, I did not see anything on the internet tying
together AWSM and Google.


Best of luck with this...let me know how it works out.

paf

i have microsites with awsm and wondering if i made the right decision
to invest with them. anybody else with comments?

I don't know much about this company but I must have signed up to
receive info on the company because my caller ID has been showing "Ad
For Sight" but leaving no message.  So I Googled the company and the
602 phone number and found this site's information plus the Phoenix
BBB and I wasn't impressed.  So today the number showed up again and I
was here to answer it.  The man was very upbeat but when I told him
what I had found online he responded that "Walmart gets tons of
complaints also and we all still shop there" and I remembered the same
statement from this post (see post by moneymaker69) and I thought that
was a red flag. He asked me if I was familiar with affiliate income
and I said yes I was a member of Commission Junction, Clickbank and
Linkshare.  He said he had never heard of Commission Junction and were
they planning to go public soon.  I said I don't know if they are a
public company but I was genuinely surprised that he had never heard
of Commission Junction.  He assured me that his comapny was way ahead
of CJ in the marketplace.  I wish I had asked him to Google his
company and Google CJ and see what he gets.  I did ask him how much
his opportunity cost and he told me a $99 investment, I told him that
the complaints online said that the company asked for more money
later.  He said that's only if you decide to re-invest in the business
and you can't run a business without re-investing.  I told him that I
thought I would pass on this offer and he said "well since you know
everything and are not willing to invest $99 in your business" (which
is not what I said) "then there is no need for us to waste any more of
our time on you, you have a nice day now.." and he hung up.  If he
hadn't taken the time to insult me (he's wasting his time?) I wouldn't
have bothered to write this post.  He could have ended the call with
thank you for your time and let me say goodbye but he seemed to take
it personally.  By the way I have had a non-web home business since
1995 and I have website for my city that I pay $69 a month for that I
have never made a dime on.  I get a lot for my $69 a month and my
content is improving everyday.

If anyone is considering purchasing from awsm just check out the scam
sites and complaints to the AZ BBB before making a decision.

bigfish2003-ga 
What do you think?
I filed "A Demand For Arbitration" for "CLICK FRAUD"
with the American Arbitration Association's(AAA) Western Regional
Office located at 6795 North Palm Avenue, 2nd floor, Fresno, CA 93704.
 Telephone: 877-528-0880; internet: http://www.adr.org/.  There are
other Regional Offices which one can obtain from the AAA website  The
AWSM contract calls for filing with the AAA as a necessary first step
in this QUASI COURT legal process.  If one is still not satisfied then
one can go to court.  You don't need an attorney to rip you off for
$30,000  You can file In Pro Per.  It costs $750 to file the "Demand
for Arbitration form" which can be obtained at http://www.adr.org/. 
The arbitrators are independent attorneys who have experience in
arbitration.  You select 3 arbitrators from a list of 5.  It costs an
additional $475 for the arbitrators to hear the case. 
I will have my hearing within 45 days.  One can sue for the initial
re-imbursement that one requests plus administrative costs and
PUNITIVE DAMAGES!  According to the contract, the hearing must be held
in Phoenix, AZ, although the Regional Office for the AAA may be
located elsewhere.  Is this the right tact to file a grievance
inasmuch, as the AWSM contract calls for this first step in the legal
process?

The Phoenix police Dept. encourages all victims of the AWSM scam to
report to the FBI:http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp