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Subject:
Reasoning for opposition to CPE (French employment law)
Category: Miscellaneous Asked by: frankcorrao-ga List Price: $8.00 |
Posted:
02 Apr 2006 16:02 PDT
Expires: 02 May 2006 16:02 PDT Question ID: 714752 |
I am looking for a good reference to something that outlines clearly the reasoning used by students and unions to support their outrage at the CPE. Something like a op-ed or two against the law, in English, would be good. I've tried looking but I can only get accounts of the protests and political conflict, but never a good argument as to why oppose the law other than some vague reference to "fears about job security". However, such a general statement doesn't address the counterpoints about reducing unemployment, competing in the global marketplace etc. In my view as an American, and proud capitalist, I think the protesters are not very short of insane, but i'd very much like to better understand their position. |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Reasoning for opposition to CPE (French employment law)
From: frde-ga on 02 Apr 2006 22:03 PDT |
Actually I'm surprised you have not twigged it, but maybe it has been poorly reported in the USA. There are two strands. One is that there are immigrants and descendants of immigrants who find it hard to get employment. I'll make no comment on that. The other is that people who do not fall into the first category /currently/ take low or unpaid 'internships' in the hope of either landing a job or building a CV. Look at the second case carefully. People are /currently/ working for squat with no job security. They do it in the hope of getting real employment. If an employer can get someone for nothing, sack them at will, why should they employ more people and pay them a living wage - if they can sack them at will (as they currently can) ? It just does not add up. I can't figure out why the French Government reckon that this is a good idea, normally they are pretty joined up, but in this case it looks as if they are deliberately picking a fight with everyone under 26. It makes little sense from the point of view of the 'employer', you can already get people for peanuts - and sack them at will. I smell a rat - possibly this is a diversionary tactic. |
Subject:
Re: Reasoning for opposition to CPE (French employment law)
From: nelson-ga on 03 Apr 2006 06:19 PDT |
I read a good book not too long ago called "Sixty Million Frenchmen Can't Be Wrong". It explains the French mindset. |
Subject:
Re: Reasoning for opposition to CPE (French employment law)
From: frde-ga on 03 Apr 2006 06:59 PDT |
@Nelson - on a trivial point the population is below 60 million - and there are more Frenchwomen than men Have you ever gone there ? - it is an interesting place, being from the UK I've seen a bit, initially as a kid and many years later as a visitor - heck, business meetings with Air France were memorable - their planning was formidable. They run things differently, but things look efficient. - as an aside, they were pretty bright on Iraq, but my view is that the UK Foreign Office felt the same way, but did not mind letting Bliar and Shrub walk into a bear trap. Now the really interesting ones are the Germans, I've lived there, they look to me as if they are playing the long game. |
Subject:
Re: Reasoning for opposition to CPE (French employment law)
From: nelson-ga on 03 Apr 2006 17:39 PDT |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France says the pop. is higher. |
Subject:
Re: Reasoning for opposition to CPE (French employment law)
From: jaspreet123-ga on 03 Apr 2006 17:53 PDT |
here's an article on the issue in current issue of Newsweek. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12113766/site/newsweek/ |
Subject:
Re: Reasoning for opposition to CPE (French employment law)
From: mecguerrier_402-ga on 03 Apr 2006 21:20 PDT |
Here's your answer to your question. Being bilingual, and having been to France, I am able to solve your question. The French, by nature are a highly stubborn, stressed out society. They live in a world where getting a decent job is 5 times harder than in North America. French are all trying to find a place in society, and are hard-pressed to find something that pays more than 10 euros an hour...which by French standards is barely even liveable. The co-op programs which French move on to, after University, or apprenticeship or what have you, lasts for two years. The recent protest in Paris was because these students were against the fact that the employer can legally fire (and many do) the students from their co-op program perhaps a day before their co-op program has finished. Thus, they go through 6 years of schooling for absolutely nothing, and employers have NO right to be fire the students. Do not mix this up with the torchings in Paris a couple of months ago. That was because the foreign immigrants of France did not feel themselves capable to mix in with society. The French government, in these regards, is corrupt. They think that if they allow students to be fired (and may I add they can be fired for absolutely no reason), there will be more workers. Perhaps, they are right, but they won't have workers who are technically 'accredited' to follow out the work in which they have dreamed, and studied to do. They are being screwed out of their future, and the people who are rendering their futures useless most of the time have no reason behind what they are doing. I, as a Canadian am all for the students, and the French government is corrupt, and poor members of French society for having done this. |
Subject:
Re: Reasoning for opposition to CPE (French employment law)
From: myoarin-ga on 04 Apr 2006 04:59 PDT |
I can't find a good reference in English, but the new law extends the probation period for employees under 26 years to two years. During this period they could be fired without notice or grounds. As Mecguerrier points out, the employers could use them long enough for them to be productive and then let them go. I don't know what the previous probation period was - probably 3 or 6 months - but probably a realistic period to discover if a person was fit for the job before s/he was really productive. The government - at least the Premierminister Dominique de Villepin - intended that the longer probation period would allow companies to hire more young people, a group with very high unemployment, perhaps naively assuming that once they had a job they would stay employed; or perhaps less naively, just hoped that the move would reduce unemployment statistics for a while. Those protesting are obviously not yet employed and take the negative view, I would venture to say, without recognizing that eventually they must accept responsibility for making a success of their future, perhaps being blind to their individual chance of beating the high unemployment statistics. One of the complaints is justifiable, that de Villepin put the law through without debate in parliament. Yesterday, President Chirac announced that the law would be amended to reduce the probation period to one year and require that grounds for dismisal be given. **** This is based on my hearing of the news and a view of the Süddeeutsche Zeitung online. I hope it helps. Myoarin |
Subject:
Re: Reasoning for opposition to CPE (French employment law)
From: frde-ga on 05 Apr 2006 05:01 PDT |
I saw something similar in Spain They had two years as 'temps' before the really heavy Employers' Social Security kicked in, so they would take people on for two years and kick them out at the 11th hour. Somehow I don't think that the protesting Air Controllers were worried about their tenure - the French seem to have an inbuilt tendency to protest, which is not necessarily foolish. If today they knock on your neighbour's door at midnight, tomorrow it could be yours. |
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