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Q: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs ( Answered,   28 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
Category: Relationships and Society > Religion
Asked by: lyndit123-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 06 Apr 2006 07:02 PDT
Expires: 06 May 2006 07:02 PDT
Question ID: 716111
Where do dinosaurs fit in with the Theory of God's Creation of earth
and man. Why doesn't the Bible mention dinosaurs? I know that He never
told us WHEN he actually created adam and eve, but I'm wondering if
there are any more developed theories on this subject.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
Answered By: easterangel-ga on 06 Apr 2006 07:37 PDT
 
Hi! Thanks for interesting question.

Yes. The Bible does indeed take the dinosaurs into consideration. They
call them as behemoths, leviathan or tannin. The following articles
will be good to read so as to have some understanding about the Bible
and dinosaurs.

"ARE DINOSAURS IN THE BIBLE?"
http://www.christiananswers.net/dinosaurs/j-where2.html

"Leviathan"
http://www.christiananswers.net/dinosaurs/j-site4.html

"Dinosaurs and the Bible"
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml


Search terms used:  
Bible dinosaurs

I hope these links would help you in your research. Before rating this
answer, please ask for a clarification if you have a question or if
you would need further information.
                                                          
                              
Regards,                              
Easterangel-ga                              
Google Answers Researcher
Comments  
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: jack_of_few_trades-ga on 06 Apr 2006 11:27 PDT
 
Also notice that God created man before the beasts.  So man and
dinosaurs must have lived during the same time.  In fact, the page
referenced above mentions Job's description of a dinosaur:
"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feed on
grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the
muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his
thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like
rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God..."
     -Job 40:15-19 (NIV)

Skeptics often say that Job must be describing an elephant, but it
certainly doesn't sound like an elephant to me.
Job was written approximately 4000 years ago.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: geof-ga on 07 Apr 2006 10:17 PDT
 
So, according to easterangel's answer and jack_of_few_trades' comment
above, dinosaurs were around at the time of the creation, which
presumably they believe, in line with the bible, took place about
6,000 years ago. In which case, I would ask them when and how
dinosaurs disappeared from the earth, and by what mechanism within the
last 6,000 years were their bones fossilised. One could also question
why the bible should bother to mention behemoths/dinosaurs, when there
are so many other creatures both existing today and extinct that the
bible doesn't mention - eg Australia's kangaroos and other marsupials,
and the .

Instead of trying to transform the bible's references to behemoths
into dinosaurs,I would have thought it easier for creationists,  to
simply maintain that god created fossils along with everything else
that wasn't mentioned in the bible and we now know about.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: geof-ga on 07 Apr 2006 10:21 PDT
 
Sorry, I missed out the word "ptereodactyl" at the end of the first
para in my comment above.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: slakemoth-ga on 07 Apr 2006 14:19 PDT
 
I'm honestly not sure what I'm bothered by more.... Jack of Few trades
response, or the fact that Easter-angel is a Google researcher and
posted that response to the question...

I mean really...c'mon  

geof-ga.... thanks for saying something.... I just shook my head and walked away..
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: irlandes-ga on 07 Apr 2006 15:02 PDT
 
I don't get it, slakemoth.  The questioner asked about dinosaurs and
the Bible, and the researcher answered accordingly.  If you do not
believe in the Bible, that is your right, of course; a lot of people
don't. But, that does not mean no one can discuss the Bible and what
it says, nor the beliefs of those who do believe in the Bible, no
matter what your opinion is.

One thing happened not too long ago, that the scoffers of religion
have very conveniently ignored.  Have you heard of Mt. St. Helens? 
While the cameras rolled, geological things happened there in a few
months that correspond with what we have always been told took
millions of years to happen.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: myoarin-ga on 07 Apr 2006 16:33 PDT
 
Who told "us" that the eruption of a volcano took millions of years to happen?

Behemoth is a Hebrew word, and the description in the Book of Job is
interesting, but nothing says that it has to be that of dinosaur.  One
of the websites Easterangel posted said that it may have been a
Hippopatamus.  As we know from drawings on early maps that were based
on verbal descriptions, they could be pretty inacurate.  We can't take
to description too literally;  obviously the behemoth did not have
bones of bronze.
I don't believe the Bible mentions dinosaurs, and have to wonder that
those who take the Bible's story of creation literally, believe that
dinosaurs actually existed.  Everything that suggests that they did
also implies that they existed eons before Biblical creation.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: amber00-ga on 08 Apr 2006 04:28 PDT
 
You might be interested in the work of Philip Henry Gosse (1810-1888).
He wanted to reconcile creationism and the existence of fossils. He
suggested that creation is cyclical: chickens come from eggs, which
come from chickens. So when God created the world, he included the
whole cycle. This meant that he created fossils too. The theory is
controversial.
See the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Henry_Gosse
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: pugwashjw65-ga on 08 Apr 2006 08:08 PDT
 
The Bible DOES give  TIME-LINE for when man was created. Using Luke 3;
23-38, gives the geneology of Jesus from Adam, and Therefore Almighty
God. Then checking Genesis chapter five verses 1-32, gives the actual
years lived by the Jewish Patriarchs, up to Noah. Genesis 6;3 then
states that from that date, man's lifespan is limited to 120 years.
Considering that man was then closer to perfection, closer to Adam,
who was created perfect, we have been going 'downhill' ever since, and
are now promised only '"three score years and ten". Psalms 90;10áIn
themselves the days of our years are seventy years;
And if because of special mightiness they are eighty years,
Yet their insistence is on trouble and hurtful things;
For it must quickly pass by, and away we fly".
If a chart is made showing the years of the patriarchs and with the
overlapping lifespans, it will be seen that Methuselah outlived his
own son Lamech by only four years. The overall total of man's
existence on earth amounts to only about 8,000 years. And Genesis
1;20-24 states that all the animals were created BEFORE man. Dinosaurs
DID exist, and were also created, for the purpose of preparing the
earth we know FOR mankind. The 'days' of creation are not 'literal' 24
hour days, but with God's power, could be. And Almighty God was not
alone while this was going on. Jesus himself, God's very FIRST
creation, was there with him. Proverbs 8; 22-31. In opposition to what
GEOF states, creation started a long time before 6,000 years ago. The
6-8,000 years applies only to man.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: geof-ga on 08 Apr 2006 09:27 PDT
 
Pugwashjw65 interprets the 6 ?days? of creation in the opening verses
of Genesis as metaphors for much longer phases, which allows for the
existence (and presumably extinction) of dinosaurs BEFORE man was
created on the sixth ?day?. For me, this is not only ingenious, but is
fully in keeping with the essence of those verses, which - in the King
James version - are a most beautiful poetic and metaphoric description
of the creation of our universe.

However, just in case there is doubt in anyone?s mind, I have never
believed that the world was created 6 - 8,000 years; but several
billion years ago. Nor do I accept Pugwashjw65?s argument that man has
only been around for that period; scientific research tells us that
there were men and women like us - possibly arguing about God and
creation - tens of thousands of years ago.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: pugwashjw65-ga on 09 Apr 2006 17:45 PDT
 
Good point Geof, but can you offer some form of proof. Re-iterating
what scientists think is not that proof. My only proof is just what I
stated before...What thge Bible says. The life spans of the
Patriarchs. It can be either believed or not. That is our choice.
Thanks for your feedback.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: jack_of_few_trades-ga on 10 Apr 2006 11:17 PDT
 
Geof,

To answer your easy question "One could also question why the bible
should bother to mention behemoths/dinosaurs, when there are so many
other creatures both existing today and extinct that the bible doesn't
mention - eg Australia's kangaroos and other marsupials,and the
ptereodactyl."
It's obvious that the bible is not capable of specifically mentioning
every organism on the earth by name.  The writers mentioned some and
not others, just like every piece of literature you've ever read
**notice the writer was not in Australia to see the kangaroos or
marsupials... he wrote about what he saw.

And your more realistic question (that is very valid) "I would ask
them when and how dinosaurs disappeared from the earth"
To answer this, I'll simply state that no one recorded the history
that long ago so I doubt we'll ever find proof of what caused their
demise... whether it was 1 billion years ago or 6000 years ago.  But
it is very clear that the earth has gone through severe climate and
other changes through history.  If you want to believe that the earth
is really old and I want to believe it is very young... the same
changes have occured either way.  So any theory for what happened to
the dinos that you can come up with, apply it to 6000 years ago and
see if the story could potentially make sense.

myoarin- You are right that the bible is not completely literal, but
the author was clearly writing the best words he had to describe what
he saw...  The bones are not bronze of course, but the bones are
obviously sturdy enough to carry the enourmous creature.  The tail is
not a cedar, but it is long and sturdy like a cedar.  I know of no
living creature today that has a tail anything like a cedar.  Perhaps
the Behemoth was not a dinosaur, but it sounds much more like a dino
than a hippo.

Here is a great site from 1 very respected Christian viewpoint with
many articles backed up by much scientific study.  It's a great
reading from either side of the debate (know a supporting arguement or
your opponents arguement):
http://answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dinosaurs.asp
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: slakemoth-ga on 10 Apr 2006 15:54 PDT
 
See here?s where we go wrong? when websites like
?answersingenesis.org? are referred to as  ?respectable? and
?scientific? we are all in trouble. It is neither one? it is about as
unscientific as you can get. But unfortunately that?s what we get
these days?.
Back to the initial question. What we have here is the honest,
inevitable question that comes up when someone really examines the
Bible and how it relates to what we know today?It is the problem we
encounter when people are told that Genesis is a book of literal
truth? It is not literal truth, and it is not meant to be taken as
such. The books that compose the ?Bible? are individual writings with
a common theme. They are books of law, of poetry, of history, of
stories, of theology, of politics etc. each with their own writers and
styles.. The book of Genesis represents a collection of the earliest
stories of the ancient Hebrews, and are meant to be read as stories,
not literal accounts. Now if there are those who wish to read them
that way, well all power to you, but #1 you are really missing the
point, and #2 you have a whole lot of this thing we call ?reality? you
need to deny in order to keep up that fašade..
So the question asks where Dinosaurs fit into the whole creation thing
and the Bible? The answer is ?who knows? and ?no, they are not in the
Bible?? ( of course modern science and book learned folks know where
the dinosaurs fit into history)  But literal Creationists can?t say
that, so they search like crazy to find some single passage that might
support their theory? and what you get are passages taken out of
context and passages snatched from all over the place to ham-handedly
support a silly concept, that even a child knows is not right? and
that my friends is why we will never have Creationism or Intelligent
Design taught in schools, because the moment either of these things
tries to support itself in any kind of legitimate forum? it all falls
apart. They rationalize about the whole Earth = 6,000 years old, which
is silly to start with, then they work to shoehorn in all the other
stuff?.
So I complained about the answer given, because I would expect more..
I?m not saying you leave out the Job passages, and the Creationist
viewpoint, but you put them into perspective and balance the question
with Biblical scholarship, archeology, a just a hint of actual science
as well?
Its as simple as this?. You can either accept the literal Creationists
point of view or you can accept Archeology, Biology, Physics,
Chemistry, Geography, History, Astronomy, Paleontology, Geology,
Biblical scholarship, Botany, Microbiology, Earth Sciences, Cosmology,
Anthropology, Climatology?.. etc. ( I think you get my point ).. Its
your choice? but its only possible to bury one?s head in the sand for
so long?  I am honestly blown away that in today?s world someone can
still convince themselves that humans and Dinosaurs lived side by
side? but that?s what happens when you have to fit a square peg into a
round hole?

And Irlandes? just for the record I don?t ?not believe in the Bible??
I have been into biblical history and scholarship for over 10 years..
and have taught biblical history, adult and children?s Sunday school
classes for the last 8?.
 I will say that the Creationist view of both the world and the
scriptures is insulting at best, and about as intellectually dishonest
as it gets?. And I?m giving you a pass on the Mt St Helens thing?. Cuz
now I know you?re pulling my leg?.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: jack_of_few_trades-ga on 10 Apr 2006 19:24 PDT
 
Slakemoth, did you not go to the site?  Read their scientific approach
(including the "technical" articles).  The site is very well respected
in Christian circles (as I said "respected Christian viewpoint" not
"respected worldly viewpoint").

If you toss off a belief as unscientific simply because it argues with
something you believe then you are only fooling yourself and you're
afraid of opposing viewpoints.

Frankly, you're spouting out "ideas" like a bad politician (perhaps a
successful politician)... you say that the creationist viewpoint is
horrible and should't be considered but you give no evidence.  What
you have also failed to do is bring up any point of your own.  You
have given no answer to the question, only attempted to shoot down
other ideas without any evidence why.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: slakemoth-ga on 11 Apr 2006 06:19 PDT
 
so Jack... You support fully the idea that the Earth is 6,000-8,000
years old, and that man and dinosaur lived side by side ?
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: jack_of_few_trades-ga on 11 Apr 2006 06:42 PDT
 
I'm not set in stone on the idea, but it fits best with what I have
read, seen and experienced.  I have no problem with other people
holding other views because this issue is in no way proven in any way.

What I did have an issue with is how you said that EasterAngel did an
unsatisfactory job answering the question when she answered exactly
what was asked.  Then you continued to shoot down my ideas without
giving any ideas of your own.  It's fine to give arguements against
ideas (I think that spurs growth in knowledge) but to simply dismiss
an idea as you did without giving any supporting evidence shows a lack
of thought and takes away from a learning environment.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: slakemoth-ga on 11 Apr 2006 06:55 PDT
 
Jack of Few trades ( and other Creationist supporters here )...
"Answers in Genesis" is only respected in circles of people that don't
know anything !!! This is fringe Christianity and as far as the realm
of science?....there is zero science there!! C'mon... look at the very
first link on that site titled "Dinosaurs and the Bible"... It reads
like a third grader's report !!! It basically says that scientists
believe dinosaur fossils to be millions of years old without any
proof.. that they just made up that idea and have nothing to back it
up!!! It doesn't support that idea in any way, just lays it out as
"truth".  Is that really what you think? That millions of scientist in
the world just agree with some made up notion that the Earth is 4 1/2
billion years old and that the last of the dinosaurs died out 65
million years ago and they have nothing to support that???? !!!!
Really !!!! Is that really how you think the scientific community
operates !!!  That sure is some powerful science I'm seeing there.


and Since you asked, here is a link to a true scientific website
addressing all the outrageous claims of Biblical Creationism... It is
the "Index to Creationist Claims" at the Talk origins site.. you can
scroll down to "Young Earth Creationism" and click on any topics that
interest you, or better yet read them all.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html#CH


Here is a direct link to an article dealing with the Creationsit claim
of dinosaur blood being found ( one of the topics you linked to at
Answers in Genesis)
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dinosaur/blood.html


"How old is the Earth and how do we know?"
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html


and here is the main Index.... browse until your hearts content..
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-index.html


this is just one website... there are lots more where that comes from...
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: slakemoth-ga on 11 Apr 2006 08:35 PDT
 
Jack of few trades - I would love to know what you have "read, seen,
and experienced" that supports any of the "Creationist" ideas... and
to say that these ideas "have not been proven in any way" is off the
charts denial of mainstream science...

Now again I will repeat my problem with Easterangels response.. A
question was asked, and the answer given represented only the fringe
kook opinion of an answer. It linked to only fringe kook websites, and
frankly took an opportunity to educate someone with a sincere Biblical
question and planted them firmly back into the middle ages. Its like
someone asking "Did the Jews really kill Jesus?" and then answering
"yes, absolutely" and then linking to a neo-nazi website where some
wacko rants about the Jews as Christ killers !  Or someone asking "Is
the Shroud of Turin really the burial cloth of Jesus?" and answering
.."Yes, absolutely"..then linking to a fringe kook Christian website
as proof.

Its my opinion that any official answer given here should educate the
asker to the point that they would be able to take the information
given and stand up in a public forum and speak intelligently on the
subject. That's the last place I would want to be armed with the
information given here. The world of Biblical scholarship and
interpretation is not as simple as some would make it out to be, and
Easterangel did not have an easy slam dunk question here.. but he/she
stepped up to the plate and therefore took on the challange... There
is a lot of information to bring to bear when asked a question... Its
not easy to answer Biblically based questions, but I feel anyone
stepping up to do so has an obligation to do it well.

but hey...its not my $5.00
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: easterangel-ga on 11 Apr 2006 09:01 PDT
 
Google Answers Researchers help customers by filtering out information
relevant to their specific question. One of the main goal here is to
prevent information overload by being drowned under a pool of data.

Now as to this question, the customer asks how dinosaurs fit into the
Bible. Links to explanations showing "HOW DINOSAURS FIT" was given.
The asker wasn't asking for anything beyond this concept.

Specific question was asked and a specific answer was given. Nothing
more and nothing less.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: geof-ga on 11 Apr 2006 09:18 PDT
 
Way-to-go, slakemoth! And thanks for finding and drawing attention to
the Talk.Origins website. It seems to me that creationists are happy
to use and enjoy all the inventions and benefits of science and
technology - cars, TVs, mobile phones, cutting-edge medical treatment
etc etc - but refuse to accept scientific findings on those matters
which don't impinge on their everyday lives, such as the origins of
the earth, geology and evolution.

Nor do I accept easterangel's justification for his "answer" to the
original question. Lydit123 asked, inter alia, "Why doesn't the bible
mention dinosaurs?" For the vast majority of the people in the world
the answer to that question is simply "Because dinosaurs weren't known
about when the bible was written." If to be fair-minded, easterangel
had then gone on to say that some Christians did think that the bible
mentioned dinosaurs in the guise of behemoths etc, OK. But to launch
right in and answer the question from this creationist point of view,
seems very dubious.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: slakemoth-ga on 11 Apr 2006 10:07 PDT
 
Here is a link to a much more even handed scholarly reply to the main
question, and using Easterangels listed search...

The Bible and Science:
Are Dinosaurs Mentioned in the Bible?
http://www.bibleandscience.com/science/dinosaurs.htm


and while you're there look at the "The Bible and Science - How Old is
the Earth?" tab as well...
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: slakemoth-ga on 11 Apr 2006 12:28 PDT
 
Yes, geof...well said!
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: easterangel-ga on 11 Apr 2006 23:43 PDT
 
Thanks for the insightful comments geof-ga. You said that... 

"Nor do I accept easterangel's justification for his "answer" to the
original question. Lydit123 asked, inter alia, "Why doesn't the bible
mention dinosaurs?"  

People in the Bible may have different terms for animals, things and
concepts due to the diparity in language and even time.

It doesn't mean that if the Bible doesn't mention dinosaurs that it is
absent from it. The word "Bible" isn't even mentioned in the whole
Bible but we know the concept.

My answer referenced what biblical scholars think about the issue and
how they defend it. If we say that there are no ideas whatsoever about
dinosaurs then that wouldn't be truthul would it?
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: geof-ga on 12 Apr 2006 00:40 PDT
 
Easterangel, I don't want to get into a personal wrangle with you, and
in any case GA is not the appropriate vehicle for such a wrangle. So,
I am happy to accept that you answered this question in a correct and
fair way by your own lights. At the same time I hope you would accept
that it is not unreasonable for slakemoth and myself to have been
disappointed that your answer excluded any reference to the
non-creationist view of the issue. This is definitely MY final word on
the matter, at least in relation to this particular question!
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: easterangel-ga on 12 Apr 2006 02:53 PDT
 
No wrangling or even an intention here geof-ga.

I just wanted to defend my answer.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: myoarin-ga on 12 Apr 2006 03:07 PDT
 
Of course the word "bible" is not mentioned in The Good Book.  It is
from Greek and developed as the expression for the group of texts now
included in the Bible.

"The Bible (from Greek (??) ??????, (ta) biblia, "(the) books", plural
of ???????, biblion, "book", originally a diminutive of ??????,
biblos, which in turn is derived from ???????byblos, meaning
"papyrus", from the ancient Phoenician city of Byblos which exported
this writing material), is the classical name for the Hebrew Bible
..."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

The word "book", however, occurs several places in the Bible, as shown
on this site:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/b/1144836025-3075.html

I agree with Slakemouth and Geof, also with the latter's suggestion
that we not belabor the point further.
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: bozo99-ga on 14 Apr 2006 17:23 PDT
 
And this section (from pugwashjw65-ga)
 And Almighty God was not
alone while this was going on. Jesus himself, God's very FIRST
creation, was there with him. Proverbs 8; 22-31.

I take to deviate from biblical teaching.  In Proverbs 8 are we to
assume that there was a time when God did not have wisdom?
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: pugwashjw65-ga on 10 May 2006 04:31 PDT
 
FOR Bozo 99; I hope you return to this thread. Proverbs 8; 22-31
relates to Jesus. An individual with all the attributes of his Father.
Especially feelings. Verse 30 states "30áthen I came to be beside him
as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of
day by day, I being glad before him all the time". If you were
implying that the scripture relates to the
Subject: Re: Religion- God, Man and Dinosaurs
From: pugwashjw65-ga on 10 May 2006 04:36 PDT
 
....QUALITY of Wisdom, then wisdom itself really cannot be a ' master
worker'. And a quality, no matter how worthwhile, cannot express the
feeling of 'being glad'. Wisdom is a tool to use wisely, Jesus is not.

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