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Subject:
Evolution and technology
Category: Science Asked by: chrisjb-ga List Price: $2.00 |
Posted:
09 Apr 2006 16:22 PDT
Expires: 09 May 2006 16:22 PDT Question ID: 717207 |
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Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
Answered By: hedgie-ga on 15 Apr 2006 01:32 PDT |
Animals use tools, and some learn language. Why and how do we differ from the other animals? Here are several relevant references http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=540280 In summary, it boils down to the 'use of complex language', language with grammar. It was mutation, or several mutations, which changed to way the brain functions. Computer scientist would say it enabled recursion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursion Grammar and recursion are interrelated: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0394756827/104-1867645-2913505?v=glance&n=283155 This is explored in books by (student of Chomski) S Pinker http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670031518/104-1867645-2913505?v=glance&n=283155 Complex language, leading to written record, facilitatet emergence of culture and cross-gerational learning http://a9.com/wilson%20consilience in particular http://www.2think.org/hii/wilson.shtml http://www.kenanmalik.com/reviews/wilson_consilience.html Technology is essential part of human culture. |
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Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: pugwashjw65-ga on 09 Apr 2006 19:17 PDT |
The answer to this is found in the Bible. Genesis 1;26 And God went on to say: ?Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth". We are made in God's 'image'. with all his apsects of Love, Wisdom, Justice and Power. Animals act on instinct. They do not ' plan ahead'. They have no sense of Justice. They accept whatever happens. We do not. We plan ahead , because we have the ability to estimate what 'will' happen. We build to protect against ' future' storms, We plan for events ' yet to occur'. We have a 'sense' of a higher authority, "God". According to verse 28, we are able , with technology, to 'subdue' the earth. e.g. The Suez and Panama canals, the Aswan and Hoover dams and many other projects. But with all our technology, we should be doing more to protect the earth we have been given. Revelation 11; . 18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.? |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: thither-ga on 09 Apr 2006 20:31 PDT |
I'm sure you'll get a comprehensive answer (as opposed to this comment), but as you mentioned tools I thought I'd just point out that: "...as shown in the first part of NATURE's INSIDE THE ANIMAL MIND, crows on the remote Pacific island of New Caledonia have learned a skill that people once thought only primates could master: the use of tools. The birds use long, specially chosen twigs to spear the plump grubs that hide deep beneath the bark of rotting logs." http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/animalmind/intelligence.html Have a good day. |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: daniel2d-ga on 09 Apr 2006 22:17 PDT |
It is called intelligence. We have it and they do not. |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: shadycaliber-ga on 09 Apr 2006 23:16 PDT |
Technology created from efficiency, necessity, entertainment. It fills our needs, our curiosity propels it, our sense of needing to be like everyone else sustains it. Even apes use tools, a bird may use a stick to get grubs from a tree. In its own right they are all technology. In its lesser state on your drive to work you tend to take the shortest rout? Why not take the long rout, its a mundane task, after doing anything too many times we in our human state find ways to improve upon it. Hence technology, a tool, technique, or a cultural force. If you didn't understand the "need to be like everyone else" it meant joe has a plasma tv, now greg must get one too, economy stuff. |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: davedamage-ga on 10 Apr 2006 07:48 PDT |
This is a very complex and interesting question. First of all there certainly are species of animals who make use of some 'tools'; chimps have been observed using sticks to get at ants to eat and rocks to beat each other. However obviously none use 'technology' in any sense. We often (as demonstrated by some of the other comments) mistakenly believe that humans are in some way fundamentally different from other animals - we are not. Everything that has evolved to live on earth is here because it has found a 'niche' into which it can fit. Im finding this point harder than i thought to make! There are people who will answer your question and more in far more intelligent and intelligable ways. There is a fantstic book called 'The rise and fall of the third chimpanzee' by Jared Diamond. It answers many questions along the same lines as yours and also asks a lot more. |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: chrisjb-ga on 10 Apr 2006 10:06 PDT |
Thanks Dave Damage, It seems you may have been the only one who, so far, really understood, or put any amount of thought to my question. Daniel 2D ? have you really thought what the definition of intelligence is? I suspect not. Pugwash - sorry, I'm not interested in Bible citing unless you are going to elaborate with your OWN opinion - not brain washings you have received. That's not to say I am not interested in religion as a valid element of this discussion. In fact I find it quite fascinating as ONE possible explanation. However I feel it is ignorant to wholly and unquestionably believe one possible hypothesis without consideration for others. It is fair enough that you believe what you have been told, as most of us do to some degree, but I ask you, WHY do you believe? If I met God I'd ask him two quick questions. Firstly, why did you create us? And secondly, what did you do before that? Thanks Thither for your point about the crows. That presents further questions, which is usually the way, when searching for answers of this magnitude. And I hope you have a good day to, thank you. Really though it only allows me to expand on my question: The precursor to the human species used ?tools?, as crows and apes do in the present day. Why though, are humans exclusive on earth, for seemingly carrying an innate NECESSITY in their brains to consciously develop as a species, like a ?super organism?? Shady Calibre, you have attempted to answer one aspect of this question - the psychological reasoning behind the human minds motivation. For me it is about paradoxically self created necessity, stemming from fundamental fear in the human mind. This is very complex, and is related also to competition and natural selection, in my opinion. If anyone wishes to elaborate on this area I would be interested in other peoples? thoughts. I haven?t really been very good at elaborating on my points, but then it was me who asked the question. I?m surprised at the number of comments. Thanks everyone. Hopefully someone will provide an answer that will satisfy me, although they will probably need a time machine that can travel backwards in time, or perhaps God will log in and sort me out. |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: rracecarr-ga on 10 Apr 2006 10:45 PDT |
"The Third Chimpanzee" by Jared Diamond http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060984031/104-3207183-4667156?v=glance&n=283155 |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: manyvan2000-ga on 10 Apr 2006 12:23 PDT |
In the process of evolution any strength or skill is developed to compensate a weakness. In this case, humans are comparatively weaker, slower than many other animals when it comes to race for food / survival. In order to survive, be it hunting for prey or to escape from predators, each animal must come up with a strength that the others dont have - for instance long neck of giraffe, swiftness of panthers and deers. In the evolution, monkeys have developed sophisticated hands and we, humans have found the way to use it more effectively - to make tools (other animals use tools, but its human intelligence that made him to create tools.) Also humans are comparatively lazier and greedier than most other species. All these combined - laziness, greediness, being slower and weaker, having sophisticated hands - could have lead to the development of technology. This is one of the many paths in the process of evolution that has been adapted by humans. The reason only humans have come this way is sheer coincidence. In fact a lot of birds and animals have superior skills like intuition and they have intelligence and could evolve into a species superior than humans. It may not be probable, since they dont have the need or want, but still it is quite possible. |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: markvmd-ga on 10 Apr 2006 13:02 PDT |
I suspect any time another species has approached Man to negotiate for improved status, we've eaten them. |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: davedamage-ga on 10 Apr 2006 15:07 PDT |
I have an exam in 5 weeks, and your damn interesting question (and unwarranted flattery) has given me the excuse not to study for the past hour! If I fail then you, Chris, are getting the blame! Here are my incoherent, ill-thought out, (badly spelled and punctuated) thoughts: Technology has been advantageous to individual humans through two main ways that I can think of: ?Agriculture. Hunter gatherers have been killed off by larger numbers of farmers ?Weapons. For more effective hunting as well as in human-human conflict (those with more advanced technology would obviously survive) Our current obsession with technology seems not to, certainly in most cases, confer an evolutionary advantage. In the UK today are my children really more likely to survive and pass on my genes if their mother has a plasma-screen TV and a 40 GB mp3 player? Am I going to find her less attractive if she doesn?t? Obviously this is a massive oversimplification, and I would like to be able to give a definite ?no? if I was asked. To be honest though ? I don?t know for sure. Another (seemingly sexist) question would be: if I was female would the ?technology factor? be more/less/just as important or unimportant to me choosing a partner? If I remember correctly then my ill-presented hypotheses (not mine of course, but belonging to some thoughtful intelligent evolutionary biologists) are that maybe: (a)Our current obsession for technology stems from a previously very advantageous trait of ?desire for technology? (b)Sexual selection (the handicap theory?) results in evolutionarily ?fit? individuals displaying their ?fitness? by making some ?sacrifice?. Effectively saying ?I?m so great that I can waste money an all this stuff and still be able to look after myself and survive?, the animal example everyone always goes for is the peacocks tail. As I read this over again I realise that I have almost entirely missed the crux of your question: why only us? The only possible explanation I can think of is pretty much markvmd?s. The niche for ?animal-using-tools-extensively? has been filled, and there isn?t room for anyone else (or rather nothing else is as well adapted to this role as us). Perhaps if species XYZ had filled the niche they?d be asking the same question right now. Apologies to Dawkins, Darwin, Diamond, Williams etc for some no doubt horrific bastardization and misrepresentation of their exceptionally interesting ideas, explanations and analogies! I don?t know why the subject is so damn interesting, and I really wish I could understand and speak about it better; maybe this?ll help sort it all out in my head anyway. DD |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: chrisjb-ga on 10 Apr 2006 16:43 PDT |
Very interesting - compensating for weakness. It is a good point you make Manyvan2000. I had the thought that the human brain uses technology as 'extensions of the human form' (eg telescope as extension of the eye, book as extension of the memory, etc - see Plato, Mcluhan and numerous other scholars) in order to compensate for a body that did not have the required assets for completing a task envisaged by the human brain. The human brain is remarkable because it is able to envisage the completion of a task that, without the use of a device, that is as yet non existant, is currently impossible to achieve. The human brain is crucially able to imagine something previously thought impossible, and bridge the gap between the humans current state and the future state with the use of invented technology. I realise there are a huge number of factors that caused humans to evolve intelligence distinctly beyond that of any other animal. But why though, in the time since humans have existed, have there been no signs of the development of other animals in a similar way as humans? Perhaps as precurser species to the present day human we did simply eat them, as you suggested Markvmd. Certainly hands are an important factor, and dry land as apposed to water. And a great many other factors favoured humans. Having thought about it now I am fairly satisfied by these answers. I was hoping for something more dazzling, but I spose it is just fluke and that's nature. |
Subject:
Re: Evolution and technology
From: scubajim-ga on 10 Apr 2006 17:28 PDT |
I am currently reading Jared Diamond book called Guns,Germs, and Steel. Fasinating work. I'll have to read his earlier work now. We are built to take advantage of the world around us. We don't have the best eyesight, we can't run faster than the fastest animal, but all together we somehow are able to use technology to our advantage. Some animals do use tools, we are just a heck of a lot better at it. |
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