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Q: What happened to my sites? ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: What happened to my sites?
Category: Business and Money > Finance
Asked by: opposing_force-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 02 Oct 2002 20:35 PDT
Expires: 01 Nov 2002 19:35 PST
Question ID: 71887
Hello,

I need some research assistance.  For quite some time now, I have had
sites in the number one and two position for mortgage related search
terms.  All of a sudden, my sites have disappeared completely - they
are no longer a part of google's search results.  The URLs in question
are http://www.home-loans-n-mortgage.com and
http://www.mortgageleadsgeneration.com.  We have a competitor who is
using underhanded tactics and causing us to lose business.  We are
suing this person.   I have worked long hours building link
relationships with other webmasters - at last count, our home loans
and mortgage site had over 500 quality links.  Can someone there
please look into my complaint and let me know in no uncertain terms
what happened to my very important search engine listings?  I have
sent other emails to Google but have had no response.  If I am doing
something wrong, I need to know and correct it.  If someone else is
behind my lost listings, I need to know that too.  Many thanks to you
for your help.
Answer  
Subject: Re: What happened to my sites?
Answered By: andy_uk-ga on 04 Oct 2002 12:48 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hi,
Sorry to hear that you've lost your place on Google! Being one of the
last truly free search engines, it can be the only source of traffic
some business websites ever need.

Firstly, I should point out that the way Google works out listings is
neither simple nor guaranteed - sometimes sites can be dropped from
the index for no apparent reason, or lose rankings for reasons that
may not be obvious, and there may not be a specific reason that your
site no longer shows up.

Secondly, I think I should clarify the number of links situation. You
said that there were over 500 quality links the last time you checked.
I thought the best way to check this would be to look for how many
sites contained the name of your site anywhere on there pages. I did
this by looking for the phrase
"http://www.home-loans-n-mortgage.com/". This search returned just
over 340 results. This in itself should mean that Google would really
link your site - seeing as it crawls the internet by following one
link to another, it would come across your site often, and see it as
an important site. However, by clicking through to the end of the
results pages, I was able to see how many of these links Google thinks
are from sites of importance. Alarm bells rang when I saw that of the
340 links, Google only saw 23 of them as valuable, with the telling
message "In order to show you the most relevant results, we have
omitted some entries very similar to the 23 already displayed". this
means that you have lots of links from sites too similar to each other
for Google to display. Already, your site is in danger of being
labelled as a spam site.

Let me explain this a little. More and more, search engines are having
to find new ways to judge the quality of the pages they return in
search results, in order to eliminate junk pages with no content, that
are becoming increasingly common. In order to decide which pages to
keep and which ones to throw out, they have to come up with ways of
judging what good pages have in common, and what bad pages have in
common. Spammers go to great lengths in order to push their pages into
search engine indices, and one of their favoured techniques is known
as 'link farming'. This is where you make a large amount of identical
or very similar pages that link to your site, and put as many of them
on the internet as you can. By exchaning pages with like-minded
webmasters, it's possible to build up an awesome amount of links into
your site. This technique was extremely successful up until a few
years ago, when search engines started to compare pages, and throw out
any that were too similar. Google has become very refined at this
process.

If there are 340 links to your site, but google only rates 23 of them,
you are in danger of being seen as a spam site, even if your not.

Now, link farming is just one technique that can get you banned from
Google, or any other search engine, for instance www.alltheweb.com,
which maintains an extensive banned list. I took a closer look at
http://www.home-loans-n-mortgage.com/ to see if you had fallen foul of
any of the other potential danger areas. By dragging the mouse over
the text on the page, I discovered that you had some text written in
the same colour as the background of your table cell. It reads "Home
laons at great rates". There's a typo in there, so it doesn't seem
link ypou intended to hide the text. But this is quite serious -
writing text in the same colour as the background of your page is a
cardinal sin as far as search engines are concerned - it was a
favoured technique (still is) amongst adult webmasters a few years
ago, because it worked. The search engines got wiser, and now any kind
of hidden text can land you in hot water. Put simply, what search
engines will see and what your visitor see will not be the same, and
if a search engine picks up on this, it can assume that you are trying
to 'trick' them into ranking your page higher, and exclude you from
their index.

All this added up could mean that Google has decided to ban your page
- fingers crossed that it hasn't because there is no guarantee that it
will include you again if you have been banned, and the only solution
might be to get a new domain name and start again.

However, all is not doom and gloom, because there are a number of
steps you can take to get your site back into Google, or at the very
least to build up your sites reputation with the search engine again.

The first, and debatably the most important step in promoting your
site on the internet, is to submit to the Open Directory via Dmoz.org.
Submission is free, but getting into the Open Directory practically
guarantees that Google will include your site - since the directory is
human edited, run by volunteers and also forms the basis of Google's
own directory results, this is viewed as a link of the highest quality
to your site. I notice that neither of your sites are listed.

Secondly, if you can afford it, you should submit your sites to Yahoo,
which is also viewed as a very important link. These 2 steps alone
ensure your site that your site will be crawled by Google, even if you
have no other incoming links. If Google thinks your site is spam,
however, it will still not index your site, even with these links

That said, If your site has been banned, taking these 2 steps will not
help you to get back into Google, so I would wait at the very least
one month to see if Google reindexes your site – there are links to
your site, so Google will follow them. In the meantime, make sure you
get rid of the hidden text on your pages, and make sure that any links
to your site are in pages that are already in the Google index, and
which are also related services to those offered on your site. This
will ensure Google sees them as valuable links.

It is extremely unlikely that a competitor has succeeded in getting
your site banned. There are very limited things that a rival can do
because, at the end of the day, it is the content on your own site
that determines it’s worth.

I hope this has helped clear up your situation – if you  require any
sort of clarification, please let me know. This is a very complex
subject with no simple explanation, and I am more than happy to give
you some more advice if you need it.

Good luck getting your sites back into Google!


Internet Links:

Checking links:
://www.google.com/search?q=link:www%2Ehome%2Dloans%2Dn%2Dmortgage%2Ecom
://www.google.com/search?q=link:www.mortgageleadsgeneration.com

General advice:
http://www.webmasterworld.com

Submissions:
http://dmoz.org/add.html
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/suggest/

Clarification of Answer by andy_uk-ga on 04 Oct 2002 13:15 PDT
Hi again.
I thought of another couple of points that I thought it would be
worthwhile to mention.

I Focussed on http://www.home-loans-n-mortgage.com/ above because that
seemed to be the most important of the 2 sites you mentioned, or at
least, the search engine seemed to see it that way. The other,
www.mortgageleadsgeneration.com had only 2 links in Google, and so
might not be indexed because it is not visible enough on the internet.
An Open Directory submission would help to overcome that, if you were
accepted. Links from guestbooks are not viewed very highly, because it
is possible to submit to many of them indiscriminately, which is no
substitute for a link from an established site, which will
traditionally only link to sites of value.

It's possible to be on a so-called 'spam server' - many search engines
have a list of banned IP addresses, and if you are hosted on a server
with one of these you might nver be included, but a had a look at the
IP addresses (by using an advanced search at www.allthewe.com) of your
sites, and there are other sites using the same addresses and so this
cannot be the case.

Again - good luck getting your site listed. You have a good quality
site that in time, can get back into Google.

Clarification of Answer by andy_uk-ga on 04 Oct 2002 16:00 PDT
Hi again opposing_force,
As far as I know, there is no real way to get 'unbanned' from Google.
But this is not as bad as it sounds. All the search engines updated
their indexes periodically, so if you bought a new URL, it would just
take time for you to build up your site again, and if you start from
scratch, you can make sure you avoid any of the pitfalls you
encountered this time. It moght be possible to 'repair' your current
site, but it won't necessarily be worth the time and effort if you
don't get back in.
opposing_force-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Hello Andy,
thanks for your very informative answer.  Unfortunately, I did find
out later that my site was submitted to a "link farm".  I did not do
that.  Someone else did.  That is just so totally wrong.  Is there any
way to get my site "unbanned" from the google search engine, as I am
well aware that link farm links are absolutely useless and no man's
land.  I have a feeling that I am going to have to start from scratch
again unless there is some other way to get these worthless links
removed.  thanks again for your help.

Comments  
Subject: Re: What happened to my sites?
From: stulee-ga on 04 Oct 2002 09:51 PDT
 
Hi,

I had a quick look at your site and the links to it that I could find
on Google.  There appeared to be only 34 or so of which Google showed
9, but they weren't what I would call quality links - the majority
were entries from Bob or Sandie in guestbooks. It is possible Google
may have changed their linking policy and view such links as very low
priority now.  Which is a shame as I was thinking of using that ploy
myself!  Some of the guestbook entries had even been removed and were
only present in the cached copy of the site that Google had.  It might
be worth checking that the rest of your 500 links are still in
existence.

Looking quickly at the code for your site, it appears that you have no
meta-tags defined, which I would have thought would have limited
Google in indexing your site well.  Again, maybe their listing
criteria has changed recently and you have found yourself lower down
the list for that reason.

Your site looks like a quality one, I'd have thought you would have
had no problem getting it entered into various business directories.

PS I've just looked on Alltheweb.  Only 23 links, most them from one
site and again all the same guestbook entries.  Strangely it looks as
if your 500 quality links are gone!  Or somehow seem to be unknown to
FAST/Google.

Thats as much as I can tell you without more background I'm afraid.

Good luck!

Stu
Subject: Re: What happened to my sites?
From: stulee-ga on 04 Oct 2002 10:36 PDT
 
Apparently Google doesn't make use of meta-tags any more so that's not it...

Stu

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