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Subject:
Medieval dress making
Category: Miscellaneous Asked by: gilroy0-ga List Price: $10.00 |
Posted:
14 Apr 2006 21:17 PDT
Expires: 14 May 2006 21:17 PDT Question ID: 719075 |
Working from equipment and materials available in medieval Europe (circa 1150), how many hours would it take someone to make a high-class dress? Assume the dressmaker is proficient, that the design has been previously settled, and that the material has just become available. If the material matters, assume wool. |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: redfoxjumps-ga on 15 Apr 2006 01:48 PDT |
Buy cloth in French festivals or card the wool and weave the fabric? Fancy wedding dress or simple workaday outfit? |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: cynthia-ga on 15 Apr 2006 02:02 PDT |
She specified a "high class dress" and said we could assume wool if we wanted. I would guess it would take a couple days, depending on details. Maybe a bit less. |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: myoarin-ga on 15 Apr 2006 03:48 PDT |
I think we can assume that the dress would be a "Bliaut", described in detail on this site: http://www.chateau-michel.org/belle_bliaut.htm I didn't read the text, so I don't know if a bliaut relates to these simple patterns: http://bliautlady.50megs.com/bodyover.htm If you search Google Images for bliaut, you will find five pages of pictures, some linked to patterns and descriptions. Obviously, if the skirt includes gores to make it fuller, there will be much more sewing necessary. Someone would have to know how cut edges of the cloth are treated, but with wool, perhaps they needn't have been secured against raveling. Any decoration would be an additional time factor, especially if it had to be made in the time frame - instead of sewing already available "whatever". |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: frde-ga on 15 Apr 2006 03:51 PDT |
Stitching the thing together would not take that long - but I would imagine that there would be a fair bit of embroidery A 'high class' dress is a demonstration of 'conspicuous consumption' - so the classier it is, the more work has gone into it |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: frde-ga on 15 Apr 2006 05:09 PDT |
How interesting - your post appeared before mine What got me thinking was Hogarth's (whoops 'Artist unknown') portrait of Henry VIII - bling in embroidery On the other hand, I picked up from Dorothy Dunnet, that at one time black was by far the most expensive dye - it might be a 'little black dress' |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: czh-ga on 15 Apr 2006 13:12 PDT |
It seems to me that the type of needle and thread available might have a bearing on the speed and efficiency of sewing. I've read that needles were made of metal, bone or thorn. The metal ones were considered very valuable. I also wonder about other sewing tools, i.e., scissors, thimbles, thread spools, etc. |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: myoarin-ga on 15 Apr 2006 19:51 PDT |
Great minds and all that, Frde. I know a bit about natural dyes. Black is corrosive, walnut husks and other sources of tannins. Black sheep's wool is rather a very dark brown and fades lighter - even on some sheep. They would have stuck to basic red, blue, yellow and combinations of two colors. I agree with you entirely about embroidery, probably the decoration for a "high class dress", and time consuming. Maybe you were thinking of one of Holbein's portraits of H VIII? |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: frde-ga on 16 Apr 2006 08:19 PDT |
I darted off to look at the cover of Antonia Frazer's tome on the wives of Henry VIII - then checked inside the dust cover. My guess is that it is 'school of Holbein' I've a suspicion that things were not that different in 1150 - Constantinople was still going strong then Really classy stuff would have been influenced by the then centre of culture, but adapted for the climate. One of the things that has bemused me over the last 10 years, is that there is a lot more history than I was taught. |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: myoarin-ga on 16 Apr 2006 13:30 PDT |
And the worst part of it is that we were around and remember some of it. ;) |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: gilroy0-ga on 16 Apr 2006 21:13 PDT |
I'm the original question poser (and not, incidentally, a "she", but that's fine :). The dress in mind would be for a celebration -- along the lines of a New Year's Eve society gathering (not that there were a lot of those in 1150). Formal but less so than a wedding. I probably wasn't clear but this is for a work of fiction, not for actual construction by me. (I'm lucky I can lace shoes, much less cut and make a dress.) Everything so far has been tremendously useful -- thanks to everyone who posted. |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: myoarin-ga on 17 Apr 2006 05:05 PDT |
Right, only one New Year's eve celebration in 1150 ;) So your time contraint is the late arrival of the material - missed the last ship across the Channel before Xmas? Of course, I wasn't there, but my understanding of medieval life is that a new party dress would have been rare except for the wedding or a really big event where the lady was a main player. A bride's trousseau was meant to outfit her for life, including material to be made up later. Everyone would wear the best they had for a celebration, recognizing that others were doing the same, much as was the case into the early 20th century in the parts of Europe where local custumes were worn. That is, of course, not an answer to your question, just a personal impression that the situation is rather hypothetical. If you insist that a new dress must be made in a short time, I would estimate a week - with some sloppy embroidery. Or maybe a clever somebody comes up with the idea of appliqueing existing embroidery on the new dress (but her girlfriends would notice, as they would notice the hastily made embroidery). Don't know if your storyline has to worry about that. Good luck! |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: cryptica-ga on 18 Apr 2006 09:56 PDT |
This won't help you with the "how long would it take" question, but here are a few tidbits that might be of interest anyway, from an interview I did a few years ago with Dublin costume designer Consolata Boyle, who did the amazing costumes for the Glenn Close (Eleanor of Aquitaine) and Patrick Stewart (Henry II) "Lion in Winter" re-make. The "Lion in Winter" is set in 1183, so it's around your time frame. Even though the characters in your work aren't royalty, here's what Consalata had to say about dressing all class levels for that time period: "It's not easy to research the clothes, as there's very little-- obviously -- in existence. The research is usually monastic resources and church windows. And the most amazing tapestries, wonderful tapestries, where they have beautiful visual references. So that was really great. It's a more complex time to research than maybe others -- but it's more interesting. It's a joy, really." "It was known that the peasantry would have had wools and linens and the aristocracy and the nobility would have had silks and linens. A lot from the east, a lot of silks from the East, from Byzantium. Beacuase they traveled so much. They were traveling to the East and bringing all this back." "And very subtle fabrics. The nobility were very, very sophisticated on that level. And very beautiful. The clothing was very, very beautiful." Not sure if any of this is helpful to you, but perhaps your character wouldn't be wearing wool, if as you say, she wants a "high class dress." Wouldn't she aspire to something more special for this occasion? Especially if she's living near the royal court. |
Subject:
Re: Medieval dress making
From: czh-ga on 18 Apr 2006 17:08 PDT |
gilroy0-ga, I haven?t been able to find anything on estimating how long it would take to sew a 12th century high class dress but the search has been fun. The resources below will provide some hints that you might be able to use. ~ czh ~ http://www21.brinkster.com/annascrafts/textile.htm http://www21.brinkster.com/annascrafts/sew.htm · Costume beginning before 1500 http://www.chateau-michel.org/belle_bliaut.htm The Beautiful Bliaut: Haute Couture of the Twelfth Century http://home.flash.net/~wymarc/asoot/magi/magi.htm Costume for a 12th Century Lady http://www.virtue.to/articles/extant.html Extant Clothing of the Middle Ages -- Photos of the real thing. http://www.faucet.net/costume/research/12thcpaper.html http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/medieval.html Eleventh and Twelfth Century Gowns--Influences and Discoveries http://www.fetteredcockpewters.com/page_sewing.htm Medieval Sewing Kit http://www.currentmiddleages.org/tents/costuming.htm http://cunnan.sca.org.au/wiki/Category:12th_Century |
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