I am looking for a systematic way to convert cell site Base Station ID
codes into some sort of physical location.

For example, right now I am in Panama City, FL and my Verizon CDMA
phone is connected to a cell tower with the BID of 20018, an NID of 5,
and an SID of 264. I'd like a way to use this cell site info to know
aproximately where I currently am (i.e. Zip code 32459, or Lat/Log N
30.32 W 86.14).

The ideal solution would be a database or spreadsheet listing all the
CDMA cell towers with thier BIDs and locations.

The answer must be related to an automated programmatic way to access
the info I need. I will not accept answers like "Just drive around the
whole US and write down all the BIDs that you see."

The answer must tell me about a data source I can actually get access
to and use. I do not need the database to be free. I will not accept
an answer like "Verizon has a secret internal database of all thier
towers that they keep in a safe at the coprate headquarters."

Right now I specifically need info about CDMA cell sites in the US,
but would also welcome additional info on getting locations of GSM
cell sites and sites outside of the US.

Thanks!

---

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 30 Apr 2006 04:34 PDT

bigjosh2-ga,

I just wanted to let you know that I've spent a good deal of time
looking into your question, but with no luck.

As far as I can tell, a comprehensive database doesn't (yet) exist. 
It seems odd, but there you have it.  In fact, the absence of a
comprehensive list of cell locations is one of the things that makes
911 calls from cell phones so frustratingly difficult, as the calls
often cannot be localized, even in an 'in the ballpark' type of way.


If you have any thoughts on how to proceed on this one, I'd be
interested to hear them.

pafalafa-ga

---

Clarification of Question by bigjosh2-ga on 04 May 2006 05:43 PDT

I know that the exact database exists in the wild, and you can find
tantalizing shadows of it on the web. For an example, check out...

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Databases/Q_21574262.html

...alas, there is no way to contact a questioner on ExpertExchange
("Our privacy policy does not allow us to have members contact each
other.")
, so I can not ask Manuel for a copy of his file. :)

Also, clearly Verizon knows where all its base stations are located
and what BID they each transmit. I've joined thier deleopers' program,
but so far have found them to be completely unresponsive.

Finally there is...

http://www.cibernet.com/

...which is the entity responsible for creating BIDs and who
presumabely keeps a record of the BIDs they've assigned. Alas, they
also have been completely unresponsive to inquiries I've made.

Also, I think that e911 problems are not related to a lack of access
to this database since the local carrier who fields call knows exactly
where thier own cell sites are and even knows which sector on the
tower the call orginates from. I think the main difficulties with e911
are finding ways to compunicate this info to the hundreds of different
PSAPs that have all different kinds of systems, many of which can not
deal with non-address based locations.

Thanks!

---

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 04 May 2006 07:37 PDT

All right...beginning to make some progress (thanks, in part, to your
feedback, and to the comment that was posted, below).

There do seem to be master files of wireless antennae and their
ownership and locations.

However, the files are quite large, and designed to be handled by a
database -- that is, there are numerous files, and each one
cross-references the others through unique ID codes.

Unfortunately, I do not have a lot of facility with these sorts of
files (though I'm learning, bit by bit).

What I can extract is information that looks like the following:




|A0000069|1000042|96980|
DALLAS SMSA LIMITED PARTNERSHIP  DBA 
  SOUTHWESTERN BELL MOBILE SYSTEMS INC
2147332025
17330 PRESTON RD STE 100A
DALLAS|
|75252|BARBARA HABY|


EN|
|A0000097|1000064|96988|
BELLSOUTH MOBILITY INC
2054443577
100 CONCOURSE PKWY STE 375
BIRMINGHAM|
|35244|RANDY THOMAS|


EN|
|A0000129|1000093|96992|
WESTEL INDIANAPOLIS COMPANY  DBA 
  CELLULAR ONE
3175758900
8888 KEYSTONE CROSSING STE 300
INDIANAPOLIS|
|46240|MINDY PITTARD|

.
.
.
and so on, for thousands of antennae.


Most of the fields are coded numbers -- registration number, file
number, system identifier number, and on on.

Unfortunately, I cannot get a clear read as to whether any of these
correspond to the data you have at hand...BID/NID/SID.


For instance, one of the records I have for Panama City (there are
many, obviously) is:


EN|
|A0247989|1222456|2620203|
|L00010111|Gulf Coast Community College
8507691551|jbaxley
mail.
|5230 West U.
. Highway 98
Panama City|
|32401|James Baxley|0006153837



You can see the 32401 zip code for Panama City is part of the record. 
The actual lat/long data is included in a separate file that has to be
cross-referenced after one builds a full database.



Anyway, that's where I am thus far.  I thought it would help to post
the information I have and get your feedback, because you're obviously
much more familiar with this topic than I am.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

paf

---

Clarification of Question by bigjosh2-ga on 04 May 2006 07:57 PDT

Unfortunately I thikn the FCC files are of limited use becuase (1)
they do not conatin BID info, only SID info which, at best, narrows
things down to a region and at worst down to a carrier, and (2) they
only include towers that are more than 200' tall, which misses a huge
number of cell sites, especially in urban areas.

Not sure what a BID, NID or SID is. But the Federal Communication
Commission's databases are here:

http://wireless.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/wtb-datadump.pl

Specifically, you can download the cellular database:

http://wireless.fcc.gov/uls/data/complete/l_cell.zip

When you unzip that file, you can use any text editor to read the .dat
files, each of which appears to be a database table. There are PDF
files on the Web page that explain what the different tables and
fields are.

Hope that helps. =)

FYI- the cellular database only refers to 850mhz analog cell sites- as
PCS cell sites do not have to be registered by location unless they
infringe upon air safety.  In other words- only towers and only those
that are 200' AGL or greater or within 5 miles of an airport.

I deal with tower data daily- get the weekly question "where can I get
cell site ID location data"- and the answer is simple.  From the
wireless carriers directly or from one of a few entities which they
entrust the data with.  And as you might suspect they aren't willing
to sell this data or share it as it would reduce their opportunities
to develop their own location based services.

If you can find this data- there are hundreds of companies that will
beat a path to your door down.

just to back up what steelintheair said.  The carriers closely gaurd
their tower location information. In most cases, only a very small
percentage of the employees of any particular carrier will even have
access to it.

mmm - not so sure about all the secrecy.  This doesn't help the
original researcher, but :
Are there not zoning requirements for cell sites?  Wouldn't the
appropriate local government people have the information on all site
locations?

The information does seem to be around - I found
http://antennasearch.com and tried it - it found :
4 Tower Structures
No New Tower Applications Found as of 06/22/06. 
98 Antenna Locations within 0.65 miles of my street in Reston VA.  
The 0.65 miles looks like it is a fixed distance, but there does seem
to be a usable database out there in at least one form.

Cheers
LA

In all the excitement I forgot what I originally intended to ask.  How
many cell sites are there in the US anyway?