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Q: Objective Defiant Disorder ( Answered 4 out of 5 stars,   3 Comments )
Subject: Objective Defiant Disorder
Category: Health > Conditions and Diseases
Asked by: willry-ga
List Price: $30.00
Posted: 01 May 2006 20:52 PDT
Expires: 31 May 2006 20:52 PDT
Question ID: 724577
Today someone told me there son is 16 and when they were 7 they were
diagnosed with objective defiant disorder and that there was medicine
to help it, they replied, "Our son is already on enough medicine, I
think this is something we can handle." So today there son 16 and the
father fights wih the son when seriosu topics arise, otherwise they
have a great time and just the oppisite with the mom: When serious
things arise there are no problems, but when mom has had a bad day and
just about anything comes up they get in a huge fight and they both
say things they regret. Needless to say the parents are divorced but
the mom and dad are having so much trouble.

Obviously no of these are my questions its just a background story...

My questions are,

?	What is it?
?	Is it real?
?	Are there cures?
?	Do those cure work if there are any?
?	For this mother to work with her child without medicine?
?	Write an argument against medicine.

Thank You Very Much.

This is my first time using this service and it seems to e incredible.

If you clearly answer my question I understand I can tip.

Thank You


Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 01 May 2006 20:59 PDT
Could the condition be "oppositional defiant disorder" rather than
"objective defiant disorder"?

Clarification of Question by willry-ga on 02 May 2006 11:37 PDT
It may be. That what I was thinking when I researched it myself
Subject: Re: Objective Defiant Disorder
Answered By: boquinha-ga on 02 May 2006 22:18 PDT
Rated:4 out of 5 stars
Hello willry-ga!

It?s always difficult to hear these stories and not feel sorry for
those that are suffering. I hope that the information here is useful
to you and that you can share any helpful things here with your

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


ODD appears in the ?Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders? (DSM-IV), published by the American Psychiatric
Association. As a ?defined? illness, there are strict criteria for
diagnosis. Below is a list of those criteria.

?A. A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting
at least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are

* often loses temper 
* often argues with adults 
* often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules 
* often deliberately annoys people 
* often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior 
* is often touchy or easily annoyed by others 
* is often angry and resentful 
* is often spiteful or vindictive 

Note: Consider a criterion met only if the behavior occurs more
frequently than is typically observed in individuals of comparable age
and developmental level.

B. The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant
impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

C. The behaviors do not occur exclusively during the course of a
Psychotic or Mood Disorder.

D. Criteria are not met for Conduct Disorder, and, if the individual
is age 18 years or older, criteria are not met for Antisocial
Personality Disorder.

Other diagnoses to consider include: Conduct Disorder; Mood Disorders;
Psychotic Disorders; Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder; Mental
Retardation; impaired language comprehension; typical feature of
certain developmental stages.?

For the European criteria see the following link. In general, they are
very similar to the DSM-IV criteria, with some exceptions. The
European description includes this paragraph:

?The key distinction from other types of conduct disorder is the
absence of behaviour that violates the law and the basic rights of
others, such as theft, cruelty, bullying, assault, and
destructiveness. The definite presence of any of the above would
exclude the diagnosis. However, oppositional defiant behaviour, as
outlined in the paragraph above, is often found in other types of
conduct disorder.?

Here is a fact sheet from the American Academy of Child and Adolescent
Psychiatry that explains features of and approaches to ODD.

Here is an article about ODD.

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While there will always be a subset of individuals who deny the
existence of ANY mental disorder, ODD is definitely a well-documented
condition. There are many sites that list similar statistics regarding
its prevalence, and it is a well-defined condition within the DSM-IV
in the U.S.

According to the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, ODD affects between 2
and 16 percent of all adolescents.

A similar statistic is reported here:

Here is another site with similar statistics, stating about 10% of
children under 12 are affected:

In the U.K, it appears that ODD affects somewhere between 10 and 15
percent of all adolescents.

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Children with ODD usually experience one of four eventual outcomes. They are:

(1)	Grow out of it. About half of preschoolers with ODD are ?normal? by age 8.
(2)	ODD becomes ?something else.? Anywhere from 5-10% of preschoolers
have their diagnosis changed to ADHD. Some develop Conduct Disorder in
addition to ODD, but this will usually happen within the first 3-4
years after initial diagnosis with ODD.
(3)	ODD persists with no additional diagnosis. Only 5% of preschoolers
do not develop a second diagnosis by age 8.
(4)	Other disorders are ?added? to the diagnosis of ODD. This is very common.

Much of the treatment of ODD focuses in on counseling, stress
management, and skills training rather than medications:

?Treatment of ODD may include: Parent Training Programs to help manage
the child's behavior, Individual Psychotherapy to develop more
effective anger management, Family Psychotherapy to improve
communication, Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy to assist problem solving
and decrease negativity, and Social Skills Training to increase
flexibility and improve frustration tolerance with peers.?

There are relatively few studies on the use of medication in the
treatment of ODD. Stimulant medications (Ritalin or Strattera, for
example) have been used with modest success in children exhibiting
both ODD and ADHD. Support groups can also be a valuable tool for
parents of children with ODD.

?The central focus of therapy with oppositional defiant disorder is
usually behavioral, implemented through parent training. . . .
[Parents] learn specific behavioral techniques, which help increase
the likelihood of maintaining control in the relationship with the
child. Gradual shaping of the child's behavior toward more
age-appropriate behaviors is accomplished through the implementation
of a behavioral monitoring and reward program.?

Here is the abstract of a recent study about the use of Dialectical
Behavioral Therapy (DBT) in the treatment of ODD. It looks promising.

For more on DBT see:

As far as medications are concerned, according to one article:

?Stimulant medication is used only when oppositional defiant disorder
coexists with attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Currently, no
research is currently available on the use of other psychiatric
medications in the treatment of oppositional defiant disorder.?

All of the abstracts I have found on Pubmed indicate the same thing:
therapy and counseling are the best and nearly only treatment that
works in pure ODD.

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After considering all that I found about counseling and therapy in
treating ODD, it?s not hard to argue against the use of medications.
What is apparent is that it is quite common to have a diagnosis in
addition to ODD. If this individual is now off of, or contemplating
going off of medications, based on the above articles, I would assume
there is another diagnosis besides ODD. A very common second diagnosis
is ADHD. This is, of course, guesswork to some extent. I would need a
specific diagnosis to provide the best research possible. Here is an
article that discusses nutrition, especially protein and omega-3 fatty
acids as a means to treat ADHD:

Here is a child psychiatrist with thoughts on alternative treatments
for ADHD, including using computers to assist therapy:

This is a collection of information and links regarding the various
treatments for ADHD, medicines and otherwise:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Again, I hope that there is something I?ve found that can help.
Sometimes just having more information is all it takes to calm one?s
mind or find a way to cope with a difficult situation. If you have
need of any clarification please let me know how I can help. Google
Answers is a great place to come for information, and there are a
number of excellent researchers available here. I hope your first
experience here will bring you back again sometime in the future.


Search strategy:

Online search search (?oppositional defiant disorder? treatment;
?oppositional defiant disorder? medication)

Search terms: 

Oppositional defiant disorder
Cure oppositional defiant disorder
Treatment ?oppositional defiant disorder?
Medications ?oppositional defiant disorder?
Alternative treatment adhd
willry-ga rated this answer:4 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $5.00
Was a very indepth answer. I thought I would get it faster. I will be back!

Subject: Re: Objective Defiant Disorder
From: frde-ga on 02 May 2006 02:38 PDT
1) Father and son normally get on Ok
2) With 'serious topics' they fight

 An older person should be more adept at reasoning with a younger person
 - adolescents tend to be argumentative anyway

1) Mother and son get on Ok normally (inferred)
2) When 'serious things arise' they still get on Ok
3) When the mother is stressed she and son fight

 Sounds like the mother is taking it out on the kid.

Kids' behaviour is a result of 'training' - they are a product of
their environment.

It sounds to me as if the son has developed a knee jerk reaction to
certain situations, if his mother is stressed he /knows/ that there
will be a fight
- he also knows that when there is trouble, she is supportive.

If 'serious topics' means the father is laying down the law, either
about what the son may or may not do, or about (say) politics, it
sounds like a male battle of wills
- probably the father trying to dominate the son.

The critical thing is how the son behaves with other people, his
reactions may be a Pavlovian response limited to his parents - or he
might have generalized his behaviour so that he fights with any

It is perfectly normal for sons or daughters to be driven to
distraction by their mothers - or people to be driven to distraction
by their fathers.
- that can continue throughout their life (right now I'm thinking of a
daughter in her 50's who is driven wild by her father - and a number
of sons whose elderly mothers do the same).

There is a fairly simple thing called Transactional Theory that
explains a lot to me :-

Basically we all have three modes of behaviour :-
   Parent - concerned, bossy, didactic
   Adult  - rational, unemotional
   Child  - irresponsible, flippant

Parent <-> Parent communication is fine
Child  <-> Parent communication is fine
Adult  <-> Adult  communication is fine
Child  <-> Child  ditto

Parent <-> Adult  leads to major problems they are talking different languages
Child  <-> Adult  is difficult, the Child is irrational, 
                  the Adult tries to reason, the Child stamps their foot

In your case, when the mother is stressed, she probably acts like a Child.

With the father, he is probably trying to act like a Parent, when the
son is unwilling to adopt the role of Child.

Amusingly, as all grow older, the parent can assume the 'Child' role,
and the child takes the 'Parent' role
- normally this is when the parent has problems and needs someone to
advise and/or dig them out.

Incidentally, another major cause of friction is if the son/daughter
is more intelligent than the parent - 'Adults' hate to be patronized.

One good thing about the parents in this case, is that they refused 'medicine'.
- very sensible of them
- I am sure that PinkFloyd will come up with some disturbing research

The father and son will stop scrapping in a few years, they will
probably develop an Adult <-> Adult relationship. Since they normally
get on fine, they will probably become 'friends'.

The friction with the mother will cease when the son leaves home.

If the son's confrontational behaviour has spilled out beyond the
home, then he will be in for a rather rough time until he learns that
it does not pay.
Subject: Re: Objective Defiant Disorder
From: willry-ga on 02 May 2006 11:36 PDT
interesting I can t wait to hear more people's thoughts
Subject: Re: Objective Defiant Disorder
From: boquinha-ga on 04 May 2006 13:37 PDT
Thank you very much for rating my answer and for the tip! I'm glad
that you're pleased and that you'll be back, too!


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