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Q: Gypsies in the EU ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   4 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Gypsies in the EU
Category: Relationships and Society > Politics
Asked by: register1234-ga
List Price: $50.00
Posted: 13 Jun 2006 05:28 PDT
Expires: 13 Jul 2006 05:28 PDT
Question ID: 737743
I want a recent history (from 1980 onwards) of how the term
'segregation' has been used in connection with Gypsies (or Roma),
particularly (not exclusively) in European Union documents (including
European Union institutions e.g. Council of Europe)

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 13 Jun 2006 07:51 PDT
Hello there.

Your question is an interesting one, but a bit open-ended.  It would
help to have some additional guidance as to what, exactly, you're
looking for in terms of the usage of 'segregation' regarding the Roma
in Europe.

Also, it's difficult to go as far back as 1980, since most online
materials are of more recent vintage, dating back to the mid-1990's.

As far as the use of 'segregation', I am putting together a set of
excerpts as follows:

==========
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/members/expert/committees/view.do?language=EN&id=30099
...Researcher and adviser, research project on segregation of the Roma
in schools (2000-2001).





http://www.europarl.europa.eu/omk/sipade3?PUBREF=-//EP//TEXT+TA+P6-TA-2005-0151+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN&LEVEL=3&NAV=X
Texts adopted by Parliament
Thursday 28 April 2005 
European Parliament resolution on the situation of the Roma in the European Union

...N.   whereas Roma are regularly discriminated against in the
provision of health care and social security; noting with concern
cases of segregation in maternity wards and the sterilisation of Roma
women without their informed consent...





://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=3&q=http://www.europarl.europa.eu/omk/sipade3%3FPUBREF%3D-//EP//NONSGML%2BREPORT%2BA5-2001-0223%2B0%2BDOC%2BWORD%2BV0//EN%26L%3DEN%26LEVEL%3D2%26NAV%3DS%26LSTDOC%3DY&e=7168
The physical segregation of the Roma increases their marginalisation
REPORT

...on the situation as regards fundamental rights in the European Union (2000)

...The Roma experience racial discrimination particularly as regards
access to housing and education. They frequently live in ghettos on
the edge of towns in insalubrious conditions. As far as nomadic Roma
groups are concerned, there is a serious shortage of parking sites in
the EU, while those that do exist are frequently overcrowded and
under-equipped. The physical segregation of the Roma increases their
marginalisation; as a result, they are excluded from access to public
services, health and education.

...With regard to access to education, a recent Council of Europe
recommendation (R 2000/4 of 3 February 2000) notes that this community
suffers from total or partial illiteracy and that Roma children who do
attend school are often subject to segregation on the grounds that
they are socially and culturally handicapped.

...Rapport du European Roma Rights Center 'Racial Segregation of Roma
in Italy', Campland
==========



I will post these as an answer once I have completed the list.  

In the mean, time, though, if there is something more specific you had
in mind in terms of usage, please let me know so that I can fine-tune
my research.

Thanks,

pafalafa-ga

Clarification of Question by register1234-ga on 13 Jun 2006 09:40 PDT
Hi there, thanks for the comments, looking useful already. What I want
to know is when 'segregation' became part of the language used to
describe the situation of Roma or Gypsies in Europe. 'Segregation' is
used at the moment in terms of education of Roma in EU countries, but
I want to know where it started to be talked about originally. I want
to know where this word 'segregation' comes from (not etymological but
the social meaning), I mean, are they taking it from African-American
experience? Is it a human rights term?
Hope that clarifies it a bit for you, the problem is, I want you to
clarify it for me!
Answer  
Subject: Re: Gypsies in the EU
Answered By: pafalafa-ga on 13 Jun 2006 16:19 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Thanks for getting back to me.

There doesn't seem to be any obvious beginning to the use of the term
'segregation' in regards to Europe's gypsy population.  Instead, the
term is simply used as a very ordinary and obvious choice of terms to
describe the state of affairs of the gypsy population.

The earliest reference I found to segregation of the gypsy population
dates back to 1924.  But there are undoubtedly even earlier uses of
the term in the literature, even though they did not show up in a
fairly comprehensive search.

I'e listed below, a few (of the many) references I found to
segregation of the gypsies, spanning numerous sources and decades.  I
trust this information fully meets your needs.

However, if there's anything else I can do for you, simply let me
know, and I'll be happy to continue working on this.

pafalafa-ga



===============


TURKS SEGREGATING RACIAL MINORITIES 
They Establish Zones Forbidden to Arabs, Armenians, Georgians and Greeks. 
EVEN GYPSIES INCLUDED 
Except Kurds, Inhabitants of Alien Speech May Not Dwell in Separate Communities. 
New York Times 
Apr 5, 1924. p. 4


You can see the headline for this article by heading here:


http://www.esnips.com/web/GoogleAnswers 


and clicking on the file named [ turks and gypsies.jpg ]






A CURB FOR HUNGARY'S ROVING GYPSIES
Government Orders Them to Quit Their Care-Free Life And Settle Down
With Their Music in Domesticity
HUNGARY CURBS HER GYPSIES 
By EMERY DERI
New York Times 
Sep 30, 1928. p. 86 

"...It is the gypsies' innate clannish spirit which forces them to
spearate themselves from the Hungarians...and to inhabit separate
quarters [in] ...their special parts called the "gypsy village."  Here
they live, somewhat segregated from the Magyar population...





Bulgaria to Segregate Gypsies
New York Times 
May 5, 1942. p. 11





BRITISH PLAN HOUSING SITES FOR GYPSIES
Also Hope to Extend Welfare Benefits 
Chicago Daily Tribune 
Dec 26, 1961. p. A1 

"The government's plans were announced after a day-long debate on the
plight of the gypsies...Norman Dodds, a Socialist member, described
the gypsies as "Britain's otcasts and refugees."..."The segregation
laws of South Africa, whcich we rightly despise, would be a blessing
to the thousands of gypsies in Britain today," Dodds said."




Gypsies Allege Discrimination
The Washington Post 
Aug 6, 1963. p. A9 



Parley in Spain Seeks Integration of Gypsies
By David Darrah. 
The Washington Post 
Jun 13, 1965. p. A32



Here Come Gypsies; Call Them Citizens
By PAUL HOFMANN
New York Times 
Apr 30, 1978. p. E8 



Irish Gypsy: Native as Shamrock, Hated as Plague
By J0N NORDHEIMER
New York Times 
Feb 17, 1983. p. A2 



Spain's Hated Gypsies Stay True to Themselves
By EDWARD SCHUMACHER
The New York Times 
Oct 25, 1984. p. A2 



BBC 
October 1, 1982
Slovak State Official on Successes in Policy Towards Gypsies


''The basic problem in the process of raising the cultural standards
of the gypsy population must be seen in their housing conditions, as
well as in their views on birthrate, which were generated by the
former capitalist regimes. Capitalism pushed the gypsies to the outer
limits of villages, or two or three km from the villages and virtually
segregated them from society.



BBC
May 28, 1983
'Vilaggazdasag' Debate on the Status of Gypsies

"...It is a fact that the gypsies for a long time opposed political
loyalties and the dynamic and many-sided effect of environmental
community forms, but in spite of this they have been unable to
conserve, to build further, their language and customs. The internal
segregation that takes place among the gypsies, which affects the
anthropological, linguistic and cultural apsect, has irreparable
consequences with regard to their homogenous life..."



U.S. Dept. of State Dispatch
February 1, 1991
1990 Human Rights Report
YUGOSLAVIA

"Gypsy organizations claim that Gypsies are discriminated against.
They cite Yugoslav sociological studies stating that Gypsies are the
first to feel the effects of poverty, unemployment, and housing
shortages and that they suffer from social segregation. The Serbian
minority in Kosovo has complained of physical mistreatment by the
ethnic Albanian majority. Reports of such mistreatment collected by
members of the Serbian Orthodox clergy in 1990 include physical
assault, the burning of property, and attempted rape. The Serbian
minority in Croatia has complained of discrimination, citing such
matters as limited availability of textbooks or newspapers in the
Cyrillic alphabet..."


===============


Again, let me know if there's anything else you need.


paf


search strategy -- Searched EU records, Google, and newspaper archives
for [ gypsies OR roma and segregation ]

Request for Answer Clarification by register1234-ga on 14 Jun 2006 02:40 PDT
HI and thanks for the answer, you found some really good references.
Could you send me some more about the EU's use of the term
'segregation'? That would be great.

Request for Answer Clarification by register1234-ga on 14 Jun 2006 02:55 PDT
and another thing...if there aren't links to the articles you mention,
then where can I find them? Or was it just the reference you found?
Thanks

Clarification of Answer by pafalafa-ga on 14 Jun 2006 07:03 PDT
Sure thing.  Here are some additional materials from the EU on
segregation of the Roma:



http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/soc-prot/soc-incl/sk_jim_en.pdf
Joint memorandum on Social Inclusion

...The most recent data available on the number of Roma drawing social
assistance benefit in 1997 shows that as many as 80% of the Roma were
dependent upon this benefit. This is clearly a high-risk group, and
the available data and field research indicate that a large section of
the Roma population lives in extreme poverty. This mainly applies to
the Roma living in segregated settlements, whose number more than
doubled between 1988 and 2000 (from 278 settlements in 1988 to 620 in
2000). It is estimated that a quarter of the Roma live here. These
locations saw an increase in the key indicators of poverty and social
exclusion.




http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/soc-prot/soc-incl/hu_jim_en.pdf
JOINT MEMORANDUM ON SOCIAL INCLUSION OF HUNGARY

...On the basis of sociological surveys, there are approximately 700
schools in which Roma children are segregated in education (studying
in separate classes). European Community legislation prohibits racial
discrimination in employment, education, social security, health care,
housing and access to goods and services.

...nearly two-thirds of the Roma households (65.1%) lived in
segregated areas called "colonies" under unfavourable housing
conditions.

...The 1993-93 survey pointed out that 13.9% of the Roma population
(about 70 000 people) lived in segregated settlements or colony-type
neighbourhoods with insufficient utility supply, and low
infrastructure, or in urban colonies in poor conditions.

...Another study carried out in 2000 found that approximately 20% of
the Roma population (100 000 people) lived in segregated settlements.

...The difference between 1993-94 and 2000 can be explained by the
increasing segregation and marginalisation of the poorest stratum of
the population.

...The Commission encourages Hungary to make greater efforts to
facilitate access to housing for the Roma in non-segregated areas.




http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/soc-prot/soc-incl/cz_jim_en.pdf
JOINT MEMORANDUM ON SOCIAL INCLUSION OF CZECH REPUBLIC
[There's a lot in this report about segregation of the Roma, but not
in a readily extractable form]




http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/expert/infopress_page/014-8637-152-06-22-902-20060531IPR08614-01-06-2006-2006-false/default_en.htm
Roma women in the EU

...It also calls for proactive measures to eliminate racially
segregated maternity wards, to help victims of domestic violence and
for particular vigilance regarding the trafficking of Roma women.





You can find additional EU materials on this topic by exploring the
many items listed at this link:


://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-22,GGLG:en&q=site:europa%2Eeu+gypsies+OR+roma+segregation+OR+segregated



As for the newspaper articles, I'm afraid these are not available at
internet links, as they come from a subscription database called
Proquest.  If you have access to a reasearch library, the librarian
may be able to assist you in getting copies of the actual articles.


Let me know if there's anything else you need.


pafalafa-ga

Request for Answer Clarification by register1234-ga on 15 Jun 2006 09:08 PDT
Hi pafalafa, Thanks for all this. Just one more thing. Have you found
in your searches an indication that commentators have used
African-American or South African experiences of segregation to
compare to the situation of Roma or Gypsies in Europe? Thanks again,
best regards

Clarification of Answer by pafalafa-ga on 15 Jun 2006 09:55 PDT
The only mention like that was one of the articles I referenced earlier:


=====
BRITISH PLAN HOUSING SITES FOR GYPSIES
Also Hope to Extend Welfare Benefits 
Chicago Daily Tribune 
Dec 26, 1961. p. A1 

"The government's plans were announced after a day-long debate on the
plight of the gypsies...Norman Dodds, a Socialist member, described
the gypsies as "Britain's otcasts and refugees."..."The segregation
laws of South Africa, whcich we rightly despise, would be a blessing
to the thousands of gypsies in Britain today," Dodds said."
=====


Beyond that, there wasn't an explicit comparison of segregation of the
Gypsies to that of the segregation practices in the US or South
Africa.  In the EU documents, in particular, it would be surprising
for bureaucrats to make that kind of comparison, given the diplomatic
sensitivities involved.

Hope that helps.

paf
register1234-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
I was pleased with the way the researcher worked with me to find out
exactly what my question was, and then gave me some really useful
references which I hadn't found before. Thanks very much.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Gypsies in the EU
From: hedgie-ga on 06 Aug 2006 06:10 PDT
 
I just want to add a tiny bit to the comprehensive
 and well researched answer by pafalafa-ga:

 "Beyond that, there wasn't an explicit comparison of segregation of the
Gypsies to that of the segregation practices in the US or South
Africa.  In the EU documents, in particular, it would be surprising
for bureaucrats to make that kind of comparison, given the diplomatic
sensitivities involved"

    This is not to defend the bureaucrats or to deny existence of the
discrimination  in EU and in new EU countries in particular.
  Neverthless:
 Pressure from Brussel  had positive effect willingness of national governments.
 Some conditions for entry to EU were and are concerned with treatment
of the minorities.

The true reason for lack of comparisons is lack of similarity:

The segregation of the Gypsies in EU and segregation practices in the
US or South Africa are very different. In Europe the main reason of
different treatment  was a nomadic lifestyle of gypsies - which leads
to other problems -
such as lack of education and then of access to skilled jobs.  There
were not laws on the books (like in US or SA) which would specify
restrictions for ethnic or racial groups.
      I mean in modern times:
There were restrictions on movement of Jews - leading to formation of ghettos
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto
but that was in the mediveal Europe.

 "emanicipation spread throughout Europe in the 1800s..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history

Before 1950, municipal policies for Roma in Europe were often "Keep moving!".
After that, authorities tried the opposite,  often without much success.
They tried settle the gypsy communities -that is to stop from moving
around  in tribal groups.
 

That process is mostly completed now, butoften without dispersion
and mixing with majority. So, there are still 'ghetos' - but not for legal 
or police restrictions. Often it has to do with availability of the
'public housing'.

Many problems, high unenployment, prejudice and criminality remain.
It is a complex issue, and this is just a comment.
 
Hedgie
Subject: Re: Gypsies in the EU
From: ekin602-ga on 07 Aug 2006 20:08 PDT
 
testing linking, please ignore
<a href="http://www.yahoo.com">http://www.yahoo.com</a>

<a href="http://www.yahoo.com">display</a>
Subject: Re: Gypsies in the EU
From: ekin602-ga on 07 Aug 2006 20:10 PDT
 
testing again, please ignore
[url=www.google.com/search?q=pinnacle]Search on Google[/url]
Subject: Re: Gypsies in the EU
From: ekin602-ga on 07 Aug 2006 20:11 PDT
 
[url]www.prime-web.com[/url]

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