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Subject:
Name this work of art
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Visual Arts Asked by: kylems-ga List Price: $25.00 |
Posted:
20 Jun 2006 12:44 PDT
Expires: 20 Jul 2006 12:44 PDT Question ID: 739733 |
I would like some history on this work of art. Good information would be its title, artist, and year completed. Great information would be (1) what is happening (is it the signing of a treaty?), (2) who are the sides involved, (3) what is that lion doing in the bottom left of the painting, and (4) an estimate of what it might be worth. It's in a frame, and I can't open it, but I'm guessing it's a print on canvas. The more information given the better! | |
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Subject:
Re: Name this work of art
Answered By: hedgie-ga on 26 Jun 2006 22:16 PDT |
Both Poland and Czechoslovakie became independent in 1917. Poland cannot be excluded, but founding of Czechoslovakia fits beter: The speaker looks more like Masaryk http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/hila/czechandslovak_peroutka.htm Then Piludsky or Daszynski http://www.poloniatoday.com/history10.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacy_Daszynski Czech Retinue Flag ( white and red ) was used by Czech Legions in Rusia http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/xc%5Eretin.html#ob (Blue wedge added later, used to represent Slovakia, but was retained, after the 'velvet divorce' in 1993 http://flags.nationmaster.com/country/ez/9 So I would say, the painting commmorates founding of Czechoslovakia in 1917 with Masaryk (the founder of the republic) talking to the peoople with Czech Legions in the backgrounds, returning from Russia Czech Legions: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0814443.html Lion is a symbol of Bohemia The oldest colour representation of the Czech lion in Abbess Cunigund's Passional from 1313 to 1321 http://www.senat.cz/zajimavosti/znaky_a_vlajky/index-eng.html Related to Bruncvik Legend http://archiv.radio.cz/history/bruncvik.html The 90 aniversary of this event will be in two years, perhaps a similar exibit will be opened http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/1998/98-135.html More on the history is at http://archiv.radio.cz/history/ Part 9 about the 1917 events http://archiv.radio.cz/history/history09.html Hedgie | |
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Subject:
Re: Name this work of art
From: pinkfreud-ga on 20 Jun 2006 14:11 PDT |
I can't identify the painting, but I have a few thoughts about it. It looks to me as if a surrender is involved, since the flag is being laid on the ground. The style of dress appears to be mid-19th century. The lion's pose is such that I suspect it is a statue. |
Subject:
Re: Name this work of art
From: denco-ga on 20 Jun 2006 14:30 PDT |
The soldiers on the right might be Garibaldi Redshirts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirts |
Subject:
Re: Name this work of art
From: myoarin-ga on 20 Jun 2006 17:26 PDT |
Scriptor locked your question while I was still writing, so now all the following adds is some other thoughts about the picture. Pleased that my speculation about Poland was correct. * * * I believe that the picture represents a scene from around the end of the 19th century to the time of WW I, despite the woman's style of dress, noting that the figures to the left are much more carefully portrayed, indeed possibly copied from a photograph, probably of once identifiable persons, whereas the soldiers in different uniforms and local girls are drawn from imagination, indeed, they may not have been present, nor the surrounding landscape have been that opposite the formal building with columns on the left of the picture. The lion would have a mate at the other end of the steps. The white and red flags suggest Poland, as do the eagles at the heads of some of the flagstaffs. Military flags in a nation's colors often include the coat of arms and sometimes other symbols for the unit, as this site with modern Polish flags shows: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/pl-mil.html#2pac The headgear of the soldiers also suggests an Eastern European source, as do the short, many layered skirts and bodices of the girls. If you think it is a print, it probably is. The differences between the horizontal and vertical cracks suggests to me that the picture is on stiff paper or glued to cardboard - rather than on canvas. Yes, the lowered flags could well be a sign of surrender. The principal persons are the man with the paper and the two at the top of the steps: the one with his hand on his breast and the one next to him. If it is a print, it must have been an important event to justify the effort to make reproductions. But what event, when and where? As a reproduction in this condition it wouldn't be worth more than the frame - unless the scene had such signifcance to someone who would pay more for it. I should have started by asking where you got the picture and where you live. |
Subject:
Re: Name this work of art
From: czh-ga on 20 Jun 2006 17:39 PDT |
I don't think the lowered flag means surrender. Rather, it seems to be a tribute that is welcomed by the party centered on the woman in blue. There is a rainbow in the top right which seems to signify peace and harmony and possibly reconciliation. The woman with raised arms in a white robe in the top left area also seems welcoming and affirming. I think Scriptor is on the right track. I just wish I knew more about Polish history. |
Subject:
Re: Name this work of art
From: myoarin-ga on 21 Jun 2006 14:35 PDT |
Trying to learn something about Polish history on Wikipedia and maybe identify persons in the picture, with Scriptor's information about the "blue army", I am wondering if the scene recalls the end of the Polish-Soviet War or maybe the resignation of Stansilaw Woyciechowski after the May Coup d'Etat in 1926. The gentleman with the paper bears a resemblance to Woyciechowski, and would seem to be in a scene that could be his offering his resignation. The rather supercilious man in the foreground might be Leopold Skulski, not that he seems to fit historically in that scene (but what do I know?). I retract my suggestion that this portion of the picture is from a photo of the event and now consider that it is collage of portraits of the significant persons (maybe including ones who were not present but shown anyway). Here are the Wikipedia sites - with many more names, some with photos either on the English site or on the Polish language sites. Josef Pilsudski seems to be a military leader involved in both events, a nice candidate for the man at the right border of the picture, but it doesn't look like him with the goatee and no sign of rank. The woman in the blue dress is certainly important, but only an observer of the event, I believe. Someone who can explore Polish websites might be able to identify her as being a woman involved in the politics of the time. Good luck! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-Bolshevik_War http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_Skulski http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Coup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislaw_Wojciechowski http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Pi%C5%82sudski |
Subject:
Re: Name this work of art
From: myoarin-ga on 28 Jun 2006 07:28 PDT |
Excellent work, Hedgie! The flags and that picture of the veterans from Columbia.edu with the men in different uniforms, quite the equivalent of those in the painting, are absolutely convincing, not to mention Masaryk. I looked for a building in Prag or Bohemia with such columns, but didn't find anything that looked remotely similar, maybe artistic license. |
Subject:
Re: Name this work of art
From: hedgie-ga on 02 Jul 2006 08:07 PDT |
Thanks for you comment myoarin-ga You are right about the .. maybe artistic license .. It is not a specific place. The (mythical) princess Libu?e (a search term) standing in the back did her prophecy at Vysehrad, but you cannot see mountain ?íp (Hora ?íp is also a search term) which is in the center of the painting. The picture spans events of some 1000 years (which is similar to the Slav Epics series. Hedgie |
Subject:
Re: Name this work of art
From: martin33-ga on 04 Aug 2006 23:22 PDT |
Yep.hedgie is right. I see our (czech) first president Tomas Garyk Masaryk holding the treaty and Hora Rip (mountain Ríp -this mountain is very important in "czech mytology") behind him in the center. Hedgie could you tell us your search strategy? How did you find out? How can you google a painting?:) |
Subject:
Re: Name this work of art
From: martin33-ga on 04 Aug 2006 23:50 PDT |
I can't see a "lion doing in the bottom left of the painting", but its probably there because lion (with two tails) to czechs is a symbol, like Bold Eagle to Americans. |
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