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Q: Driving range for cars ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Driving range for cars
Category: Science > Technology
Asked by: small_beutiful-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 26 Jun 2006 12:02 PDT
Expires: 26 Jul 2006 12:02 PDT
Question ID: 741180
What is the driving range that each of the following is capable of achieving today:

-Hydrogen fuelled fuel cell car

-Methanol fuelled fuel cell car

-Gasoline fuelled fuel cell car

How do these compare with today's conventional internal combustion cars?

Request for Question Clarification by bobbie7-ga on 26 Jun 2006 13:20 PDT
Hello again Small_beutiful,

I gathered some material for you to review. Please let me know if this
is the type of data you?re looking for?



Average vehicle has a range of about 300 miles 
Hydrogen fuel cell vehicle - 170 miles


In order for the general public to buy fuel cell vehicles in large
numbers, it is critical that the range of these vehicles be at least
as great as the cars we drive today. On a full tank of gas, an average
vehicle has a range of about 300 miles (483 km). In terms of fuel
cells vehicles, there are presently four different systems for
hydrogen storage: high-pressure gas storage, metal hydrides (hydrogen
absorbing rear earth metals), liquid hydrogen and reformate.

Even under extremely high pressure (10,000 psi), a fuel tank designed
to fit inside the trunk of an automobile can only hold enough hydrogen
(7 kg) to provide a fuel cell vehicle with the range of about 170
miles (274 km). This may be less of a concern in the future if new
fuel cell automobiles are designed around hydrogen fuel tanks and not
vice versa, which is the casepresently.
http://www.energyprobe.org/energyprobe/images/hydrogen.pdf




?As a consequence, the driving range of hydrogen-fuelled cars, with
fuel cells and internal combustion engines alike, is limited to about 200 km.?
http://www.efcf.com/reports/E01.pdf


Hydrogen 
?Fuel cells often are viewed as the wave of the future in the
automotive industry. Running off hydrogen instead of gasoline, the
F-Cell cars have zero emissions. The F-Cell can go about 100 miles on
a single tank.?
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060421/BUSINESS01/604210348/1014/BUSINESS


HydroGen3, liquid hydrogen-fueled vehicle
250 miles
?Japan?s Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport (MLIT) granted
GM the first-ever approval to drive a liquid hydrogen-fueled vehicle
on public roads in Japan. With a driving range of 400 kilometer (250
miles), HydroGen3 has the highest driving range of any fuel cell
vehicle approved for public roads in Japan.?
http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/400_fcv/fc_milestones.html



Methanol
Nissan Begins Driving Tests of a Methanol Fuel Cell Vehicle 
Q12. What is the driving range of the vehicle? 
A12. With roughly the same-size fuel tank as that of a
gasoline-powered vehicle, the driving range is approximately 1.5 times
longer
http://www.autoworld.com/news/Nissan/FuelCellTested.htm

Methanol fuel cell vehicle 
310 miles

Toyota also showcased a prototype methanol fuel cell vehicle at the
Frankfurt Auto Show. Based on the popular RAV4 sport-utility vehicle
and operating on methanol, this prototype car has a range of
500 kilometers (310 miles), while demonstrating a hybrid design
concept. Toyota has vowed to beat its competition to the marketplace
with a methanol fuel cell vehicle

Gasoline/diesel-battery hybrid vehicle 
100 miles

Another technological development is the hybrid vehicle. The
gasoline/diesel-battery hybrid vehicle is a direct development borne
out of the limitations of battery technology. Battery-powered electric
vehicles are heavy, due to the weight of the battery pack, and have
severe range limitations, reaching at most 100 miles in realworld
range per charge, but more typically 75 mile.
http://www.methanol.org/pdf/amipromise.pdf



>How do these compare with today's conventional internal combustion cars?<

A typical gasoline-powered car offers a range of 300 to 400 miles on a
tankful of fuel.
http://www.drivingtoday.com/features/archive/hybrid_electrics/index.html

Gasoline vehicles currently have an advantage in terms of driving
range. Most gasoline vehicles can travel 500 - 650km (300 - 400 miles)
before refueling, while most current FCVs can only travel about 400km
(250 miles).
http://www.cellexpower.com/Technology/faqs.htm

Clarification of Question by small_beutiful-ga on 26 Jun 2006 14:46 PDT
Hi again Bobbie

Excellent and on time again. Thanks for the answer; it suffices as it
is. You would make it more complete though if you get the driving
range of reformed gasoline fuelled fuel cell car.

Please consider answering my other questions. I really like your work!!
Answer  
Subject: Re: Driving range for cars
Answered By: bobbie7-ga on 26 Jun 2006 15:08 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Dear Small_beutiful,


Regarding reformed gasoline:

"However, vehicles using reformed gasoline or ethanol to power fuel
cells could still be more efficient than vehicles running internal
combustion engines, if the technology can be invented."
http://www.answers.com/topic/hydrogen-vehicle


"Fuel cells running on pure hydrogen are more efficient than those running on
reformed gasoline, and they require less of the expensive platinum
catalyst used to manufacture automotive fuel cells. In short, pure
hydrogen fuel and fuel cells are a winning combination."
http://www.rmi.org/images/other/HCPrss-HcTransition.pdf


Predicting the Fuel Economy Impact of "Cold-Start" for Reformed
Gasoline Fuel Cell Vehicles
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productDetail?PROD_TYP=PAPER&PROD_CD=2003-01-2253



I am reposting below my previous findings for your convenience.

Best regards, 
Bobbie7



Average vehicle has a range of about 300 miles 
Hydrogen fuel cell vehicle - 170 miles


In order for the general public to buy fuel cell vehicles in large
numbers, it is critical that the range of these vehicles be at least
as great as the cars we drive today. On a full tank of gas, an average
vehicle has a range of about 300 miles (483 km). In terms of fuel
cells vehicles, there are presently four different systems for
hydrogen storage: high-pressure gas storage, metal hydrides (hydrogen
absorbing rear earth metals), liquid hydrogen and reformate.

Even under extremely high pressure (10,000 psi), a fuel tank designed
to fit inside the trunk of an automobile can only hold enough hydrogen
(7 kg) to provide a fuel cell vehicle with the range of about 170
miles (274 km). This may be less of a concern in the future if new
fuel cell automobiles are designed around hydrogen fuel tanks and not
vice versa, which is the casepresently.
http://www.energyprobe.org/energyprobe/images/hydrogen.pdf




?As a consequence, the driving range of hydrogen-fuelled cars, with
fuel cells and internal combustion engines alike, is limited to about 200 km.?
http://www.efcf.com/reports/E01.pdf


Hydrogen 
?Fuel cells often are viewed as the wave of the future in the
automotive industry. Running off hydrogen instead of gasoline, the
F-Cell cars have zero emissions. The F-Cell can go about 100 miles on
a single tank.?
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060421/BUSINESS01/604210348/1014/BUSINESS


HydroGen3, liquid hydrogen-fueled vehicle
250 miles
?Japan?s Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport (MLIT) granted
GM the first-ever approval to drive a liquid hydrogen-fueled vehicle
on public roads in Japan. With a driving range of 400 kilometer (250
miles), HydroGen3 has the highest driving range of any fuel cell
vehicle approved for public roads in Japan.?
http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/400_fcv/fc_milestones.html



Methanol
Nissan Begins Driving Tests of a Methanol Fuel Cell Vehicle 
Q12. What is the driving range of the vehicle? 
A12. With roughly the same-size fuel tank as that of a
gasoline-powered vehicle, the driving range is approximately 1.5 times
longer
http://www.autoworld.com/news/Nissan/FuelCellTested.htm

Methanol fuel cell vehicle 
310 miles

Toyota also showcased a prototype methanol fuel cell vehicle at the
Frankfurt Auto Show. Based on the popular RAV4 sport-utility vehicle
and operating on methanol, this prototype car has a range of
500 kilometers (310 miles), while demonstrating a hybrid design
concept. Toyota has vowed to beat its competition to the marketplace
with a methanol fuel cell vehicle

Gasoline/diesel-battery hybrid vehicle 
100 miles

Another technological development is the hybrid vehicle. The
gasoline/diesel-battery hybrid vehicle is a direct development borne
out of the limitations of battery technology. Battery-powered electric
vehicles are heavy, due to the weight of the battery pack, and have
severe range limitations, reaching at most 100 miles in realworld
range per charge, but more typically 75 mile.
http://www.methanol.org/pdf/amipromise.pdf



>How do these compare with today's conventional internal combustion cars?<

A typical gasoline-powered car offers a range of 300 to 400 miles on a
tankful of fuel.
http://www.drivingtoday.com/features/archive/hybrid_electrics/index.html

Gasoline vehicles currently have an advantage in terms of driving
range. Most gasoline vehicles can travel 500 - 650km (300 - 400 miles)
before refueling, while most current FCVs can only travel about 400km
(250 miles).
http://www.cellexpower.com/Technology/faqs.htm
small_beutiful-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Thank you sooooo much

Comments  
Subject: Re: Driving range for cars
From: probonopublico-ga on 26 Jun 2006 21:34 PDT
 
Fascinating!

Great Question and, of course, Bobbie7 is the tops.

Bryan
Subject: Re: Driving range for cars
From: jack_of_few_trades-ga on 27 Jun 2006 05:37 PDT
 
Also note that gasoline cars are capable of much more than most people
think.  My trusty Toyota ECHO will be easily passing 500 miles on its
current tank (11.9 gallon tank).  I do enjoy getting 43-45 mpg in the
summer.

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