Is "veluw" a proper Dutch word, idioms included, and what does it mean?

I've never heard of it!

Can you say that because you have lived your formative years in a
Dutch-speaking environment?

Hi Jeff

It's what you mean by 'formative years' ...

I did spend 5 years there and I did learn Dutch but it's now very rusty.

I've also emailed a Dutch friend of mine with your question ...

Bryan

Toen the Dutch vriend would be a more reliable source of inlichtingen.
By the way, Jeff Smith is a child's signature I found pictured in a
textbook of Psychology. I'm Greek from Athens, my name is Dimitri, and
sometimes I can do the NY Times crossword in less than ten minutes. Am
I a reliable source of information about British English or U.S.
English? Naaah. In spijt of having studied in Canada from 1982 to
1988.

Hi Dimitri

My Dutch friend tells me ...

Not a proper word but "De Veluwe" is a heath of the sandy variety in
the middle of the country where during the last ice age the glaciers
deposited  their terminal moraines.

Bryan

I found this in Saturday's edition of de Volkskrant, in a poem about a
train station entitled Hulshorst, which sports two or three instances
of alliteration, and ends: barse bende rovers, rans en ruw uit het
witte veluwhart. Is this any hulp?

???? Dimitri ??? ??????? ??? ??? ???????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????
???. ??'???????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????????? ????? ?? ?? ???.
?*?????

Bryan,

This is your comment as it reads to a native Greek speaker: Hi
Dimitri, I have passed your most recent essence (substance?) on top of
my friend. By the way, I was in Athens but I don't remind always to
see you (yours?). This only means I can't understand it. ??? ??????
????????; ????? ??? ?? ???????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ??
????????? ????? ???????. ??? ?????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?????? ?? ???
?????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ??????????? ?? ?????????.

Interesting dialog.

Hmmm, does PB really speak/write Greek?  Why didn't he write Dimitri in Greek?

Is Jeffsmith an alias of Tryx?  Note the odd price amount.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veluwe

Hi Myoarin,

Maybe Bryan had the courtesy to write Dimitri in the Roman alphabet
because I wrote it this way myself. Of Tryx I ken naught. 641 is a
quite mainstream number as it is the divisor of the first prime which
is a power of two raised to a power of two adding one to the result of
this whole exponentiation (Fermat's hypothesis).

Dimitri

???????????? ????????! ? Dimitri, ????? ????? ???? ??????????????...
Moi; ? ???? ???? ???????????. ?*?????

Oops, make "prime" "non-prime" (Fermat's hypothesis as disproved by Euler).

That is two raised to two to the fifth power (4294967296) plus one
(4294967297) is divisible by 641 and 6700417. I'm still working on my
first million, so I had to offer a measly 6.41 dollars.

OH!  Thanks for the explanation.  "It's Greek to me."  :-)

Yes, myoarin, point taken. It's hard to express a mathematical formula
in written text without ending up being ambiguous, isn't it? Euclid
and Diophantus must have had it expressing their equations without the
use of symbols. One can only wonder what was in their minds having
grown up with modern notation. They say Classical Greek has a
mathematical structure here at home, and I don't know whether this
viral piece of homespun wisdom has caught on in your part of the
world, what with all those Greek immigrants etc. A little lateral
thinking into the relationships of Greek with Phrygian, Armenian and
Latin should expose this for the c**p that it is.

Dimitri,
Thanks again.  Of course, some Greeks feel that the language provides
an understanding of "everything".

Just a counter explanation:  "Tryx" always has oddly priced question,
apparently with some system, that remains unknown.    I did wonder
about that "divisor of the first prime", but that is as far as my math
goes.

Hope to see you around, Myoarin

Nope, Myo, not I.  And my reasons are much less self-evident than jeffsmith's.

Tryx

Hi Again Dimitri

Courtesy of my Dutch friend here is the poem in question:

HULSHORST

Hulshorst, als vergeten ijzer
is uw naam, binnen de dennen
en de bittere coniferen,
roest uw station;
waar de spoortrein naar het noorden
met een godverlaten knars
stilhoudt, niemand uitlaat
niemand inlaat, o minuten,
dat ik hoor het weinig waaien
als een oeroude legende
uit uw bossen: barse bende
rovers, rans en ruw
uit het witte veluwhart.

Please say if you'd like it translated into Greek ... or whatever.

Bryan

Well, you and your Dutch friend could try a translation in English
first. Even with my poor knowledge of Dutch I was strangely moved by
this poem.

Hi Dimitri

Following your suggestion, my friend and I have been trying to
translate the Dutch poem into an English poem but we are having
difficulties with:

'veluwhart'

What do you suggest?

Bryan

I can't make head nor tail of the poem, but saw the word "coniferen",
assuming it means what I think - conifers, and found that "bos" means
wood or forest.  Is the "bossen" in the poem related?

In German, an old meaning of "hart" (haardt, hardt) is wood or forest.  
Does the context allow an interpretation:  Veluw woods (or forest)?

Bryan,

I have no idea. Myoarin's suggestion sounds good by me, since "De
veluwe" is supposed to be a heath.

As a second thought, could "veluw" be the same thing as English
"fallow"? The Dutch say "ver" for "far", and in Manchester near where
I lived there was a place called "Fallowfield". Could there be such a
thing as "fallow wood"?

After posting, I went back to Dutch sites and found "bossen" in the
title of a Dutch organization that obviously had to do with forestry
and reforestration.

The Dutch-English dictionaries I found, all translated "hart" with
"heart" and the like, so my suggestion is still a long shot.

De hoge Veluwe is a national park in the Veluwe region of Gelderland,
noted for its forests  - according the the Wikipedia site I mentioned.

Where is Scriptor-ga, our knowledge and search expert for such matters?

What a small world!

I used to live in Oldham which is very near Manchester and yes I've
even heard of Fallowfield.

However, finding a poetic word can only be done by a poet/poetess and
I suggest that Myoarin now funds a directed question to the GoldenOki
herself and just maybe ....?

Ah, yes, and where is Scriptor? Yet another question! He's not been
heard of since the World Cup and I suspect he may have had rather too
much Schnapps.

C'mon Scriptor - if you are reading this - Schnapp out of it!

Bryan

Howdy, Jeff and Bryan,

This could take the fun out this question.  Here is an English
translation of Garrit Achterberg's poem "Hulshorst".  Scroll down a
ways.

The translator seems to have considered "veluw" to be a pine forest 
(rather than heath), and I was all wrong with my homemade etymology.

http://www.cs-music.com/features/teaselVII.html

Now for Bryan's translation into Greek  - or maybe "Owdam"

Hope I didn't spoil the party, Myo

Myo, you kind of lost me there...What is "owdam"?

Dimitri

Hi,  "Owdam" is apparently the dialect (once?) spoken in Oldham. 
Bryan claimed on a much earlier question here that he speaks it  (but
he may deny that he does now to upset my little joke).  ;)

Cheers, Myo

Many thanks, Myo, for the translation.

My respect for you now knows no bounds.

However 'Owdam' is also how us Owdamers refer to our beloved home town of Oldham.

Actually, I was born in the district of 'Athershaw, at  number 3 Alton
Street, and you could now do me a great favour by arranging a very big
plaque to be placed outside the house in which the Midwife (one Nurse
Bailey, a large jolly lady) did the necessary and slapped my bum.

Naturally, I reacted by landing a powerful uppercut on her jaw and
warned her never again to try that on me.

The plaque should display me landing one on the presumptuous Nurse Bailey.

Please? 

Your friend for life

Bryan

Bryan, 
You almost threw me off with the venacular 'Athershaw, but I found
Alton Street and was not ... er, ... uh, "impressed".  But no one can
be blamed for where they were born, as history and religions show: 
Jesus, Moses, Siddhartha, even Adonis  - popping out of the trunk of a
myrtle tree.

Having looked at a house on Alton street:
http://uk.propertyfinder.com/2/pf/property/details.do?propertyDetailsKey=7995734&atn=ATN_GET_PROPERTY_DETAILS&=

I am not sure the kind of plaque you envisage would be appropriate.  I
was rather thinking of one of those blue and white oval jobbies I have
seen in London:  very upmarket; immediately implying that the name
mentioned was/is one of the "greats" of English literature or another
field; discretely mentioning only facts related to the site that could
not in the least impinge on the person's character.
(Striking a woman or any adult as a youngster would seem to be
something better not mentioned.  Furthermore, a representation of such
could be considered support for such action, making the person shown
and the one responsible for the plaque possibly subject to heaven
knows what.)

Maybe when I am in London next month, I can get inspiration for
something appropriate ...  ;)

Cheers, Myo

You are coming to London?

Wow ... We must meet up ...

Let's hold the First GA Convention!

I'm sure that we could get Pinkfreud and Politicalguru to join us.
Could you please send them tickets?

See you soon!

Bryan

I think Nurse  Bailey did not slap you long enough, a couple of dozen
more would have done you a world of good.  Improovrd your temprement
ETC........
KEMLO