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Subject:
Naval tradition origin
Category: Miscellaneous Asked by: gunner2-ga List Price: $10.50 |
Posted:
25 Jul 2006 21:31 PDT
Expires: 24 Aug 2006 21:31 PDT Question ID: 749575 |
Why is a ship reffered to as a she? I have to do a 3 minute presentation on this. I rooted around a little but found very little. Anything and everything you can find, including pictures, would be great. I need to have this by no later then 7/27. | |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Naval tradition origin
From: probonopublico-ga on 25 Jul 2006 23:27 PDT |
Ships are referred to as "she" because men love them, but this encompasses far more than just that. Man-o'-war or merchantman, there can be a great deal of bustle about her as well as a gang of men on deck, particularly if she is slim-waisted, well-stacked, and has an inviting superstructure. It is not so much her initial cost as it is her upkeep that makes you wonder where you founder. She is greatly admired when freshly painted and all decked out to emphasize her cardinal points. If an aircraft carrier, she will look in a mirror when about to be arrested, and will wave you off if she feels you are sinking too low or a little too high, day or night. She will not hangar around with duds, but will light you off and launch you into the wild blue yonder when you muster a full head of steam. http://www.usni.org/navalhistory/Articles98/NHfoley.htm |
Subject:
Re: Naval tradition origin
From: infinitrix-ga on 25 Jul 2006 23:37 PDT |
That's a surprisingly tricky question the more you look at it... but here goes. "No one is quite sure why we call them ?she.? John Rousmaniere writes in The Illustrated Dictionary of Boating Terms that the tradition derives from the ancient Egyptian belief that a boat represents a woman who brings the crew good luck. This seems at odds with the fact that English and American sailors long believed that a woman on board meant bad luck, though this didn?t stop them from using the womanly pronoun for their ships. In Salty Words, Robert Hendrickson suggests that giving ships feminine gender was copied by English speaking sailors from seafarers who spoke the romance languages, in all of which, he claims, ?the word for ship has the feminine gender.? This is dubious. The fact is, the romance languages don?t agree on the gender of ships." http://www.sailnet.com/sailing/02/f&bjun02.htm That's really the best statement I've read as I tried to look for this, most of the articles I've found either attribute the femininity to the Egyptian goddess, romantic languages, or beauty, but no one really knows since even the experts disagree as noted. "By European tradition, ships have been referred to as a "she". However, it was long considered bad luck to permit women to sail on board naval vessels. To do so would invite a terrible storm that would wreck the ship. The only women that were welcomed on board were figureheads mounted on the prow of the ship." http://www.answers.com/topic/navy That's an interesting statement that might mean the figureheads were being referred to. Here's another article since you'll need some sources: http://www.antonnews.com/oysterbayenterprisepilot/2006/06/16/sports/sagamore.html Here's a poem that can eat some presentation time... there's probably some presentable stuff in there as well if you want to draw some points out. http://www.warsailors.com/freefleet/shippoem.html Why is a ship a "she"? and Bits & Pieces We always call a ship a "she" and not without a reason. For she displays a well-shaped knee regardless of the season. She scorns the man whose heart is faint and doesn't show him pity. And like a girl she needs the paint to keep her looking pretty. For love she'll brace the ocean vast, be she a gig or cruiser. But if you fail to tie her fast you're almost sure to lose her. On ships and dames we pin our hopes, we fondle them and dandle them. And every man must know his ropes or else he cannot handle them. Be firm with her and she'll behave when skies are dark above you. And let her take a water wave - praise her, and she'll love you. That's why a ship must have a mate; she needs a good provider. A good strong arm to keep her straight, to comfort her and guide her. For such she'll brace the roughest gales and angry seas that crowd her. And in a brand new suit of sails no dame looks any prouder. The ship is like a dame in that she's feminine and swanky; You'll find the one that's broad and fat is never mean and cranky. Yes ships are ladylike indeed, for take them altogether the ones that show a lot of speed can't stand the roughest weather. (Author unknown) A lot of the search results are junk or people simply asking the same question, the few sources I gave you should be good for a 3 minute presentation and that poem should let you draw out some meanings and talk about them. Hopefully this helps, I don't think there's an official answer, but these present a few viewpoints that seem kind of contradictory. Hope you can cobble a presentation together, good luck. |
Subject:
Re: Naval tradition origin
From: probonopublico-ga on 26 Jul 2006 00:44 PDT |
Well ... perhaps not always ... In British Society, we refer both to His Lordship and Her Ladyship. And, in French, the word for a ship is Le Bateau (masculine) ... Het Schip and Das Schiff are also masculine in Dutch and German. I wonder how French, Dutch & German sailors refer to their masculine ships? |
Subject:
Re: Naval tradition origin
From: nautico-ga on 26 Jul 2006 03:12 PDT |
I was a US Navy line officer (surface) for twenty years (62-83), having served aboard five destroyer-class ships for a total of eight years at sea. Here's an interesting distinction that we used to make in the use of the personal pronoun to describe a ship. When referring to the ship itself, it was always "she," but, if referring to the behavior of a ship at sea, it was "he." Example: When steaming in close formation during task force ops and another ship seemed to be drifting out of position, I might say "I wonder what his intentions are." The "his" referred to the commanding officer of that other ship. Of course, these were the days before women became eligible for command at sea, so nowadays "her" might be equally appropriate. Or "his or her"? :) |
Subject:
Re: Naval tradition origin
From: myoarin-ga on 26 Jul 2006 04:04 PDT |
Lovely, Bryan. I was really beginning to think that you are, indeed, a great writer - until I got the the link. But maybe I will keep thinking you are, anyway. :) Along the same line - but less flattering - someone said that as they (ships and females) get older, it takes more paint to keep them looking good. You asked how ships (das Schiff, neuter) are referred to in German. They are also spoken of as "she" and by name as "die (fem.) Hans Krohn", to use the name of a boat in my rowing club, where several boats are named after men. The male names confuse the grammar area of the brain, of course, which somehow anticipates the gender of the noun one is about to say and plugs in the appropriate form of the article before one gets to the noun. I expect that the rule of "die" for boats is sometimes broken and goes unnoticed, but just last week, I heard someone correct himself in mid-sentence: "Wir wollen mit dem ... der Krohn fahren." (confusing for non-German speakers: dative masc. "dem"; fem., "der"). To get back to the original question, the origin of this tradition, I really don't know. Maybe it is just a basic tendency of working men to express Freudian projection on the things they deal with. In German, the nut for a bolt is called "die Mutter" (the mother). Myoarin |
Subject:
Re: Naval tradition origin
From: pugwashjw65-ga on 26 Jul 2006 22:47 PDT |
Why is a ship called "She"? A ship is called she because there is always a great deal of bustle around her; there is usually a gang of men about; She has a 'waist' and 'stays'; It takes a lot of paint to keep her goodlooking; It is not the initial expense that breaks you, it is the upkeep; She can be all 'decked out'; It takes an experienced man to handle her correctly; And without a man at the helm, she is absolutely uncontrollable; She shows her 'topsides', hides her 'bottom', and, when coming into port, always heads for the 'buoys'. |
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