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Q: Naval tradition origin ( No Answer,   6 Comments )
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Subject: Naval tradition origin
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: gunner2-ga
List Price: $10.50
Posted: 25 Jul 2006 21:31 PDT
Expires: 24 Aug 2006 21:31 PDT
Question ID: 749575
Why is a ship reffered to as a she? 
I have to do a 3 minute presentation on this. I rooted around a little
but found very little. Anything and everything you can find, including
pictures, would be great. I need to have this by no later then 7/27.

Request for Question Clarification by cynthia-ga on 26 Jul 2006 00:47 PDT
This is as close to a rational explanation I can find in a quick search:

..."There are several explanations for this. Some say during the early
days of sailing every ship was always dedicated to some goddess, and
as a result the ship was referred to as "she". Another theory is that
the crew always thought the ship "cradled" them like their mother and
as a result treated it with a great deal of respect. In most Romance
languages the ship is always referred to as "she" and it is quite
possible that English sailors began to adopt this practice as well.
Since the American Navy is modled after the Royal Navy the tradition
carried over..."
http://havewebsiteswilltravel.com/background.html?whyshe=yes#why_she

It doesn't seem to authoritive so I'll keep looking, but is this the
type of information that would be useful if I could find a better
source?

~~Cynthia

Clarification of Question by gunner2-ga on 26 Jul 2006 19:15 PDT
Cynthia,
Thats what I am looking for. I found similar stuff but the more the better.
Gunner2

Request for Question Clarification by cynthia-ga on 27 Jul 2006 17:39 PDT
I did find a bit more, but it's on my computer at home. I'll post more late tonight.

Request for Question Clarification by cynthia-ga on 02 Aug 2006 00:38 PDT
Here ya go, let me know if any of this is interesting anough to be
your official answer.

Same paragraph as above, India Newspaper:
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/edu/2002/06/25/stories/2002062500050203.htm

This is the best I found at a Superstitions, Folk Beliefs, Customs and
Fun Trivia web site:

Why are ships referred to as "she"?
http://www.unicornlady.net/superstitions.html#Ships%20Called%20She
..."It has long been customary to personify inanimate objects and
attribute to them characteristics peculiar to living creatures?things
without life are often spoken of as being being either masculine or
feminine. He, him and his are applied to the sun, to winter, and to
death. Generally those things most dear to us are regarded as
feminine. For example, Mother Earth is regarded as the common maternal
parent of all life. Seamen refer to their ship using the feminine
gender?a vessel is always she or her. This is because the seafaring
man depends upon the ship for protection from the elements and it is
dear to him. It is natural he would compare it with a woman, from whom
he is often separated for long periods of time. In most older
languages the names of inanimate objects denote either masculine or
feminine gender. Almost invariably the feminine gender is attributed
to boats and ships as well as to vehicles of all kinds. But the
English language is devoid of nouns with true gender so we use
pronouns denoting sex to personify objects..."


A couple cute reasons here:
http://www.funtrivia.com/ask.cfm?action=details&qnid=8684

..."All ships and engines are called she because, like a woman; they
like to be treated with respect. If they are--they will behave like a
lady, but if abused--they will be a real witch! ..."

AND: 

..."I like the philosophy that they dance on the waves, run before the
wind and are as gracefull as the elements surrounding them..."



The University of Southern Mississippi -- McCain Library and Archives
Manuscripts & Archives Home
Box 1 Folder 10

This result came up, but I can't get any further. I think it's an
index of a hardcopy collection:

M8 Thompson (Ray M.) PapersThompson was deeply interested in history,
particularly the Civil War period, ... 1722) Jun 13 Why are Ships
Called "She"? Jun 14 Finagling at Fort Louis ...

Go to this link:
www.lib.usm.edu/~archives/m008text.htm - 208k 

On the left, copy/paste THIS:  Ships called  --into the search box there.

Somewhere in that collection, is a reallly old-timers explanation as
to why ships are called "she", or maybe it's that bustle all around
her thing again...
 

Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz put it more succinctly in an address to
the Society of Sponsors of the United States Navy: "A ship is always
referred to as 'she' because it costs so much to keep one in paint and
powder." --Naval Ceremonies, Customs, and Traditions.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/5/messages/138.html


In any event, I spent waaaay too much time on this, I'm done!

Request for Question Clarification by cynthia-ga on 02 Aug 2006 00:39 PDT
Whoops, sorry it's too late, but it's interesting nevertheless.

~~Cynthia
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Naval tradition origin
From: probonopublico-ga on 25 Jul 2006 23:27 PDT
 
Ships are referred to as "she" because men love them, but this
encompasses far more than just that. Man-o'-war or merchantman, there
can be a great deal of bustle about her as well as a gang of men on
deck, particularly if she is slim-waisted, well-stacked, and has an
inviting superstructure. It is not so much her initial cost as it is
her upkeep that makes you wonder where you founder. She is greatly
admired when freshly painted and all decked out to emphasize her
cardinal points. If an aircraft carrier, she will look in a mirror
when about to be arrested, and will wave you off if she feels you are
sinking too low or a little too high, day or night. She will not
hangar around with duds, but will light you off and launch you into
the wild blue yonder when you muster a full head of steam.

http://www.usni.org/navalhistory/Articles98/NHfoley.htm
Subject: Re: Naval tradition origin
From: infinitrix-ga on 25 Jul 2006 23:37 PDT
 
That's a surprisingly tricky question the more you look at it... but here goes.

"No one is quite sure why we call them ?she.? John Rousmaniere writes
in The Illustrated Dictionary of Boating Terms that the tradition
derives from the ancient Egyptian belief that a boat represents a
woman who brings the crew good luck. This seems at odds with the fact
that English and American sailors long believed that a woman on board
meant bad luck, though this didn?t stop them from using the womanly
pronoun for their ships. In Salty Words, Robert Hendrickson suggests
that giving ships feminine gender was copied by English speaking
sailors from seafarers who spoke the romance languages, in all of
which, he claims, ?the word for ship has the feminine gender.? This is
dubious. The fact is, the romance languages don?t agree on the gender
of ships."
http://www.sailnet.com/sailing/02/f&bjun02.htm

That's really the best statement I've read as I tried to look for
this, most of the articles I've found either attribute the femininity
to the Egyptian goddess, romantic languages, or beauty, but no one
really knows since even the experts disagree as noted.

"By European tradition, ships have been referred to as a "she".
However, it was long considered bad luck to permit women to sail on
board naval vessels. To do so would invite a terrible storm that would
wreck the ship. The only women that were welcomed on board were
figureheads mounted on the prow of the ship."
http://www.answers.com/topic/navy

That's an interesting statement that might mean the figureheads were
being referred to.

Here's another article since you'll need some sources:
http://www.antonnews.com/oysterbayenterprisepilot/2006/06/16/sports/sagamore.html

Here's a poem that can eat some presentation time... there's probably
some presentable stuff in there as well if you want to draw some
points out.
http://www.warsailors.com/freefleet/shippoem.html

Why is a ship a "she"?
and Bits & Pieces 

We always call a ship a "she" and not without a reason.
For she displays a well-shaped knee regardless of the season.
She scorns the man whose heart is faint and doesn't show him pity.
And like a girl she needs the paint to keep her looking pretty. 

For love she'll brace the ocean vast, be she a gig or cruiser.
But if you fail to tie her fast you're almost sure to lose her.
On ships and dames we pin our hopes, we fondle them and dandle them.
And every man must know his ropes or else he cannot handle them.

Be firm with her and she'll behave when skies are dark above you.
And let her take a water wave - praise her, and she'll love you.
That's why a ship must have a mate; she needs a good provider.
A good strong arm to keep her straight, to comfort her and guide her.

For such she'll brace the roughest gales and angry seas that crowd her.
And in a brand new suit of sails no dame looks any prouder.
The ship is like a dame in that she's feminine and swanky;
You'll find the one that's broad and fat is never mean and cranky.

Yes ships are ladylike indeed, for take them altogether
the ones that show a lot of speed can't stand the roughest weather.

(Author unknown)

A lot of the search results are junk or people simply asking the same
question, the few sources I gave you should be good for a 3 minute
presentation and that poem should let you draw out some meanings and
talk about them. Hopefully this helps, I don't think there's an
official answer, but these present a few viewpoints that seem kind of
contradictory. Hope you can cobble a presentation together, good luck.
Subject: Re: Naval tradition origin
From: probonopublico-ga on 26 Jul 2006 00:44 PDT
 
Well ... perhaps not always ...

In British Society, we refer both to His Lordship and Her Ladyship.

And, in French, the word for a ship is Le Bateau (masculine) ...

Het Schip and Das Schiff are also masculine in Dutch and German.

I wonder how French, Dutch & German sailors refer to their masculine ships?
Subject: Re: Naval tradition origin
From: nautico-ga on 26 Jul 2006 03:12 PDT
 
I was a US Navy line officer (surface) for twenty years (62-83),
having served aboard five destroyer-class ships for a total of eight
years at sea. Here's an interesting distinction that we used to make
in the use of the personal pronoun to describe a ship. When referring
to the ship itself, it was always "she," but, if referring to the
behavior of a ship at sea, it was "he." Example: When steaming in
close formation during task force ops and another ship seemed to be
drifting out of position, I might say "I wonder what his intentions
are." The "his" referred to the commanding officer of that other ship.
Of course, these were the days before women became eligible for
command at sea, so nowadays "her" might be equally appropriate. Or
"his or her"? :)
Subject: Re: Naval tradition origin
From: myoarin-ga on 26 Jul 2006 04:04 PDT
 
Lovely, Bryan.

I was really beginning to think that you are, indeed, a great writer 
- until I got the the link.  But maybe I will keep thinking you are,
anyway. :)

Along the same line  - but less flattering -  someone said that as
they (ships and females) get older, it takes more paint to keep them
looking good.

You asked how ships  (das Schiff, neuter) are referred to in German.
They are also spoken of as "she" and by name as "die (fem.) Hans
Krohn", to use the name of a boat in my rowing club, where several
boats are named after men.

The male names confuse the grammar area of the brain, of course, which
somehow anticipates the gender of the noun one is about to say and
plugs in the appropriate form of the article before one gets to the
noun.  I expect that the rule of "die" for boats is sometimes broken
and goes unnoticed, but just last week, I heard someone correct
himself in mid-sentence:  "Wir wollen mit dem ... der Krohn fahren." 
(confusing for non-German speakers:  dative masc. "dem"; fem., "der").

To get back to the original question, the origin of this tradition, I
really don't know.  Maybe it is just a basic tendency of working men
to express Freudian projection on the things they deal with.  In
German, the nut for a bolt is called "die Mutter" (the mother).

Myoarin
Subject: Re: Naval tradition origin
From: pugwashjw65-ga on 26 Jul 2006 22:47 PDT
 
Why is a ship called "She"? A ship is called she because there is
always a great deal of bustle around her; there is usually a gang of
men about; She has a 'waist' and 'stays'; It takes a lot of paint to
keep her goodlooking; It is not the initial expense that breaks you,
it is the upkeep; She can be all 'decked out'; It takes an experienced
man to handle her correctly; And without a man at the helm, she is
absolutely uncontrollable; She shows her 'topsides', hides her
'bottom', and, when coming into port, always heads for the 'buoys'.

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