I'm glad that you asked this question because I have the same
"problem". Actually, this is a very frequent "condition", and I'd like
to add that too frequently those who "suffer" from it have been
stigmatized as "lazy", or "nocturnal" in a somehow judgmental way.
However, one can be very lazy from 7 AM to 10 PM, and someone else a
hard worker from 11 AM to 2 AM. The problem, the only and yet
significant problem, is that the vast majority spontaneously live
closer to the former range, therefore culture is standardized after
that time frame. Thus, the world becomes more complicated for us.
Years ago, I was consulting a homeopathic physician, for a general
care of my health. I asked him what could I do to overcome this
problem. He asked me why I thought that I had a problem to overcome.
"Well -- I said -- I have to stay at work at 8 AM." To my surprise, he
said "then find yourself another job -- that is your problem".
You know, some doctors like these effect statements, and it is not my
purpose here to make a case about his viewpoint, which was the one of
someone committed to a natural approach of health care. According to
his stance, I was just a natural night-owl type of person, and -- for
him -- the best thing I could do for myself was to adapt my activities
to my natural disposition. (I must admit, in the long run that is what
I did, and have to say it did work fine.)
Now, from a more established medical approach, we may indeed suffer
some kind of dysfunction, which is called "Delayed Sleep Phase
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_syndrome ):
"Delayed sleep-phase syndrome (DSPS) is a chronic disorder of sleep
timing. People with DSPS tend to fall asleep at very late times, and
also have difficulty waking up in time for normal work, school, or
social needs. Studies indicate that it is responsible for 7 -10% of
cases of chronic insomnia.
"DSPS usually develops in early childhood or adolescence, and is often
a lifelong condition. It is usually treatable, but cannot be cured.
"DSPS was first described by Dr. Elliot D. Weitzman and others at
Montefiore Medical Center in 1981. As few doctors are aware of its
existence, it is often mistaken for other types of insomnia, and
"DSPS causes sleep-onset insomnia. Often, DSP individuals report that
they cannot sleep until early morning. Unlike most other insomniacs,
however, they fall asleep at about the same time every night, no
matter what time they go to bed.
"Unless they have another untreated sleep disorder such as sleep apnea
in addition to DSPS, patients can sleep well, and have a normal need
for sleep. Therefore, they find it very difficult to wake up in the
morning if they have only slept for a few hours. However, they sleep
soundly, wake up spontaneously, and do not feel sleepy again until
their next "night," if they are allowed to follow their own late
schedule, e.g. sleeping from 4 am to noon.
"People with DSPS have at least a normal - and often much greater than
normal - ability to sleep during the morning, and sometimes in the
afternoon as well. In contrast, those with chronic insomnia do not
find it much easier to sleep during the morning than at night. Another
important difference is that the DSP individual falls asleep at more
or less the same time every night, and sleep comes quite rapidly if
the person goes to bed near the time he or she usually falls asleep.
Young children with DSPS resist going to bed before they are sleepy,
but the bedtime struggles disappear if they are allowed to stay up
until the time they usually fall asleep.
"DSPS patients cannot simply force themselves to sleep early. They may
toss and turn for hours in bed. Those who have tried using sedatives
to fall asleep usually report that the pills made them feel tired or
relaxed, but were of no use in helping them sleep earlier. Forcing
early rising does not result in adaptation to the new sleeping
"DSP individuals are night owls. They feel most alert and say they
function best, are most creative, etc. in the evening and at night.
"They usually have tried many times to change their sleeping schedule.
Failed tactics to sleep at earlier times may include relaxation
techniques, early bedtimes, hypnosis, alcohol, sleeping pills, dull
reading, and folk remedies. They often have asked family members to
help wake them in the morning, or they have used several alarm clocks.
Or family members - especially parents - have tried to get them up on
"They are sleepy during the day, especially in the morning, if they
have had to get up early.
"They sleep in on weekends (often past noon and for more than 10
hours) to make up for not getting enough sleep during the rest of the
week. Some people with DSPS take naps during the day and feel
DSPS belongs to the family of Circadian Rhythm Sleep Disorders (see
The Circadian Rhythm "is a roughly-24-hour cycle in the physiological
processes of living beings, including plants, animals, fungi and
cyanobacteria. The term 'circadian', coined by Franz Halberg, comes
from the Latin circa, 'around', and dies, 'day', meaning literally
'about a day.'" (Wikipedia
<<Reminder: About any part of this answer, and specially from now on
that I will post reference to treatment, please keep in mind the
disclaimer at the bottom of this page, in the sense that no answer
provided in this service can be taken as professional advice nor
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_syndrome#Treatment
"Treatment for DSPS is specific. It is different from treatment of
other types of insomnia, and recognizes the patient's ability to sleep
well while addressing the timing problem.
"Mild cases of DSPS can be controlled by waking up and going to bed 15
minutes earlier every day until the desired sleep schedule is reached.
More severe cases are treated by the methods discussed below.
"Before starting DSPS treatment, patients are often asked to spend a
week sleeping regularly, without napping, at the times when the
patient is most comfortable. It is important to start treatment
"Treatments that have been reported in the medical literature include:
"Light therapy (phototherapy) with a full spectrum lamp or portable
visor, usually 10000 lux for 30-90 minutes in the morning. Avoidance
of bright light in the evening may also help.
"Chronotherapy, which consists of resetting the circadian clock by
going to bed several hours later each day for several days.
"A small (~1mg) melatonin supplement taken an hour or so before
bedtime may be helpful in establishing an earlier pattern, especially
in conjunction with bright light therapy at the time of spontaneous
awakening. Side effects of melatonin may include disturbance of sleep,
daytime sleepiness and depression. The long-term effects of melatonin
administration have not been examined and production is unregulated.
In some countries the hormone is available only by prescription or not
"Some claim that large doses of vitamin B12 help normalize the onset
of sleepiness, but little is known of the effectiveness of the
"A treatment option which shows promise is Ramelteon, a
recently-approved drug which in some ways acts as a synthetic
melatonin. Production of ramelteon is as regulated as any other
prescription medicine, so it avoids the problems of variable purity
and dosage with melatonin supplements.
"Modafinil is approved in the USA for treatment of Shift-work sleep
disorder, which shares some characteristics with DSPS, and a number of
clinicians are prescribing it for DSPS patients.
"There has been one documented case in which a person with DSPS was
sucessfully treated with trazodone. 15"
Another issue that may of interest for you, is the one that relates
DSPS and depression:
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_syndrome#DSPS_and_depression
"DSPS and depression
"In the DSPS cases reported in the literature, about half of the
patients have suffered from clinical depression or other psychological
problems. The relationship between DSPS and depression is unclear. The
fact that some DSPS patients are not depressed indicates that DSPS is
not merely a symptom of depression. Even in depressed patients,
treatment methods such as chronotherapy can be effective without
directly treating the depression.
"It is conceivable that DSPS often has a major role in causing
depression, because it can be such a stressful and misunderstood
disorder. A direct neurochemical relationship between sleep mechanisms
and depression is another possiblity.
"DSPS patients who also suffer from depression should seek treatment
for both problems. There is some evidence that effectively treating
DSPS can improve the patient's mood and make antidepressants more
effective. In addition, treatment for depression can make patients
more able to successfully follow DSPS treatments."
By the way, if you are interested in addressing your depression
problem, you may be interested in learning about cognitive-behavioral
therapies: National Association of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapists:
"Most psychotherapy outcome research is focused on short-term
reduction of symptoms, and this is the reason why many "studies" find
that cognitive-behavioral therapy is as effective as antidepressants
in the treatment of depression. This has been a pretty consistent
finding." (http://www.nacbt.org/evidenced-based-therapy.htm )
Back to the specific issue of the question, you asked also about
internet forums for this topic. You can try "Talk About Sleep" as a
general resource (http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/ ), specially its
message boards (http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/message-boards/ ), which
cover all the range (from severe to mild) of sleep disorders.
Particularly the forum Circadian Rhythm Disorders:
Also, the forums at Sleepnet.com: http://www.sleepnet.com/wwwboard/forum9.html
Finally, you can find additional information on this condition at the
DSPS and depression:
Cause and symptoms:
I believe that this information will satisfy your requirement.
However, please ask for clarification if you consider it necessary.
Thanks for your very interesting question.
Search strategy: "circadian rhythm"
Regards and good luck!