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Q: why is it ironic? ( No Answer,   11 Comments )
Subject: why is it ironic?
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Music
Asked by: tvalladon-ga
List Price: $2.00
Posted: 30 Aug 2006 15:56 PDT
Expires: 29 Sep 2006 15:56 PDT
Question ID: 760936
in the song ironic by Alanis Morissette one of the sets of lyrics is:

It's a black fly in your Chardonnay

But, what makes this even the slightest bit ironic?
There is no answer at this time.

Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: boquinha-ga on 30 Aug 2006 16:07 PDT
You might appreciate this site:

I agree with the sentiment expressed that says, "No Alanis, it isn't
ironic. It's Unfortunate. Now that you have a billion dollars go out
and buy a dictionary."

Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 30 Aug 2006 16:09 PDT
The only way I can see that a fly in the Chardonnay might be
considered ironic would be if one stretched this definition of irony:

"a state of affairs or events that is the reverse of what was or was
to be expected" (Merriam-Webster's Unabridged Dictionary)

One expects a glass of Chardonnay to be insect-free, so the presence
of a black fly might be a sort of irony. I don't think so, though.
Frankly, I think it's likely that Alanis just doesn't know what the
word "ironic" means.
Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: markvmd-ga on 30 Aug 2006 18:13 PDT
Oh, irony! We don't get that here. See, people ski topless here while
smoking dope, so irony's not really a high priority. We haven't had
any irony here since about, uh, '83, when I was the only practitioner
of it. And I stopped because I was tired of being stared at.

Steve Martin as C D Bales in "Roxanne."
Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: jack_of_few_trades-ga on 31 Aug 2006 04:55 PDT
"2. Literature. a. a technique of indicating, as through character or
plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is
actually or ostensibly stated.
b. (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as
to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses,
attitudes, etc., esp. as a means of indicating detachment from a
subject, theme, or emotion. "
"5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected. "

I have heard this question before and I always wondered why it is
asked... I guess it's kind of like when someone is describing what
happened to them and I find the event somewhat humorous and giggle a
bit, I hate when people say "No, I'm serious!".  Clearly they were
serious and I took them as serious when they said it, but I found the
situation humoruos for whatever reason.  Was I wrong of me to find
humor in the event or the way they said something, perhaps, but does
that mean that the situation was void of any humor?

Similar here, in your mind there may be no irony in this black fly
being in the chardonnay, but in my mind (and apparently Alanis') this
is humorous and somewhat ironic.
Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: myoarin-ga on 31 Aug 2006 06:12 PDT
I'll risk putting in my two bits worth.
I rather agree with Jack, and see the irony in the choice of words.
"A fly in your wineglass" would just describe the situation with no
inferences, but "a black fly in your Chardonnay" suggests (to me) an
upmarket scene, in which the contrast is greater, has greater
significance.  You're not just drinking plonk, at least, you think
you're drinking Chardonnay, being swish in a better restaurant or
gallery opening (that you've learned to call a vernisage  - and how to
pronounce both French words ;-), and then this *black* fly drowns
itself in your glass.  How common!  Okay at a picnic -  but that
doesn't happen to Chardonnay drinkers!  But to me, here, only me,
trying to be swish!
How ironic!

You don't agree?  Maybe Alanis had such an experience ...
Doesn't that agree with Pink's definition?

As an aside, poets aren't always happy with the content of their
rhymes, but the melody and meter demand something.

Myo  (who lives where irony is a foreign word)
Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: divagoss-ga on 31 Aug 2006 06:15 PDT
It's ironic because it's a *black* fly in a glass of *white* wine --
Chardonnay. Get it?
Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: petitvelo-ga on 02 Sep 2006 11:27 PDT
And may be she knows a little bit France, where one of the best
Chardonnay is made under the appellation "Clos des Mouches"  : fly
vineyard. And the biggest landlord there is a family named Chanson
(song in english)  : ))))
Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: markvmd-ga on 02 Sep 2006 13:01 PDT
I find it ironic that folks give this mediocre singer much more credit
for her understanding of irony than she deserves.

No, wait, I don't find it ironic. What's that word I'm looking for? Ah, hilarious!

Petitvelo's posting is similarly funny, and completely true!
Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 02 Sep 2006 13:13 PDT
I have occasionally heard people use the word "ironic" in describing
situations that were depressingly amusing, or macabre. Perhaps Ms.
Morissette is using the word in a vague and flabby manner, as is
common among celebrities who have intellectual veneers.

Not long ago, I heard another celeb refer to the Holocaust as "a
travesty." I am often reminded of Inigo Montoya's famous utterance in
The Princess Bride:

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 02 Sep 2006 16:17 PDT
This thread may be of interest:
Subject: Re: why is it ironic?
From: zeneca-ga on 02 Sep 2006 19:33 PDT
As a lover of irony (I am English so you might expect this) I find
Alanis song to be highly ironic.

1. It is ironic since it is a meant to be a song about irony but all
of the examples of irony given are not remotely ironic but just

So it should be : Isn't it unlucky...

2. It is highly ironic since it is a song about irony that
inadvertantly is itself ironic! - that's the ironic bit I love about
this song.

3. Irony is where someone sets out to do something (here write a song
about irony) but the outcome is related to & the opposite of what they
are trying to achieve (she actually writes a song that in failing to
be ironic is itself vaguely ironic).

4. Generally when you are pointing out the irony of the situation you
are laughing at someone's misfortune or indirectly crisising someone
so to this degree Alanis gets it right but irony is a particular kind
of unfortunate event as descibed at point 3 above, it is not an
unfortunate events that comes after seeming good fortune as Alanis has
it - no that is an Alanis not a piece of irony.

In Britain there is only one 'Monopolies Commission' - that is ironic.

A bit polititical here : I would say that Israel bombing Lebonese
innocent woman, men & children in an effort to defeat terrorism was

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