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Subject:
Historical examples of when omens occurred
Category: Reference, Education and News Asked by: anuttama-ga List Price: $5.00 |
Posted:
03 Oct 2006 17:47 PDT
Expires: 02 Nov 2006 16:47 PST Question ID: 770608 |
I am writing a book about omens. I would like to know historical incidences where an occurrence foretold of a future event. An example would be the star that foretold the birth of Jesus. I am interested in all religions and historical eras. |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Historical examples of when omens occurred
From: myoarin-ga on 04 Oct 2006 05:35 PDT |
Anuttama, An answer to your question could be quite difficult. "Historical incidences where an occurrence [an omen] foretold of a future event" are very much subject to subsequent interpretation. Maybe it is human nature to seek omens and signs that seem to foretell a major event in the world, in personal life, but until the event occurs these precursors cannot be recognized. After the event, with hindsight, someone makes the connection, and with the passage of time, the records of long distant historical events become religious beliefs or accepted myths. Religions that have an omniscient and omnipotent God have omens; they demonstrate God's foresight and the veracity of prophecies. The story of Alexander's severing the Gordian Knot may be true, but it may also be a fiction to give credance to beliefs at the time that rulers were annointed by the gods, who guided their actions and could provide signs of their future success. Similar is the myth about the sword Excalibur, that the person who could draw it from the rock would become ruler. Here are a couple of websites about "star that foretold the birth of Jesus" and the "wise men." http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.show/CT/ARTB/k/768 http://www.gotquestions.org/three-wise-men.html Click also on the "related topic" about the star. |
Subject:
Re: Historical examples of when omens occurred
From: jim_spinner-ga on 04 Oct 2006 08:49 PDT |
I believe Halley's Comet is depicted in the Bayeux Tapestry "fortelling" the death of Harold in 1066. see: http://www.bayeuxtapestry.org.uk/bayeux14.htm |
Subject:
Re: Historical examples of when omens occurred
From: anuttama-ga on 04 Oct 2006 17:57 PDT |
Myoarin, I do believe that omens may be recognized at the time they occur. For an occurrence to be likely to be an omen, something needs to be "hot" about the occurrence--the time, the place or the unlikliness of the occurrence. If something unusual happens during a time that is important (im-portent) such as signing a contract, starting out on a journey or beginning a job the unusual event is likely to portend something. I was recently arriving at the first Workshop that I was conducting and just as we drove into a parking spot in front of the building, BANG! People on the sidewalk all turned to see. My husband had driven over a full can of air freshener (lilac). This occurred right at the beginning of an important event, and was a highly noticable and unlikely occurrence. |
Subject:
Re: Historical examples of when omens occurred
From: myoarin-ga on 05 Oct 2006 06:37 PDT |
Hi Anuttama, You are writing the book, and I don't want to discourage you, but what did the bang and scent of lilacs portend? Not your first workshop - it was going to occur anyway. Perhaps we need to agree on a definition of "omen". You can find several with a Google search using: define:omen (without spaces) My feeling is that an omen portends a good or bad incident or outcome of something, and that it is not recognized by just one person but by most of the persons who experience the omen. But as I said before, I think this results from hindsight. The example of Halley's comet is useful. It was interpreted as a bad omen, as were most apparently unique heavenly occurances (the star of Bethlehem excepted), because anything that upset the normal passage of the stars was seen as an ominous exception to God's - or the gods' - order. It could just as well have been interpreted as a good omen of William's success. But since the outcome of the battle was going to leave one or the other as winner, the comet didn't really portend anything prior to later interpretation. And now that we can predict its return, most people don't consider it an omen, just as we don't get upset by eclipses, which frightened the dickens out of earlier peoples. Maybe you should forget this discussion for your book - maybe I shouldn't have imposed my thoughts, they are not what you asked for. Here are a couple of articles that could be interesting, if you can access them: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0022-0256(197707)29%3A3%3C157%3ANOSPAU%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Q http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0029-5973(199501)42%3A1%3C83%3AJB%22WRA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-8 and these: http://www.thefamily.org/endtime/feature.php3?cid=1&id=375 http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc012799.html Scroll down half way for "More about Ancient Astronomy" http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/JNES/journal/issues/v64n3/64300323/64300323.web.pdf http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/lunar_lore_000118.html http://www.ukings.ca/courses/dlehoux/Historicity.pdf http://cdli.ucla.edu/pubs/cdlj/2006/cdlj2006_003.html http://touregypt.net/astro/ This points out the obvious relationship between omens and astrology, as does the following: http://www.zodiacal.com/articles/hand/history.htm http://accessnewage.com/articles/astro/rhist2.htm http://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/viewArticle.do?id=5280 http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/osc/osc50.htm http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9702/reviews/reilly.html http://www.harpers.org/HowOmensAreVerified.html http://www.earthview.com/ages/history.htm http://www.liberalartsandcrafts.net/contentcatalog/religion/terminology/hebrew/augury.shtml http://www.authorama.com/ancient-china-simplified-47.html http://www.solarviews.com/eng/cometancient.htm http://www.bibalex.org/eclipse2006/HistoricalObservationsofSolarEclipses.htm http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&se=gglsc&d=95189904 http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05048b.htm And many more found with searching for: historical omens Maybe this course outline and the bibliography is of interest: http://www.brown.edu/Departments/History_Mathematics/HM0013/hm13.html Good luck, Myoarin |
Subject:
Re: Historical examples of when omens occurred
From: anuttama-ga on 06 Oct 2006 10:26 PDT |
Myoarin, I really appreciate the thought that you have put into this. In fact the first chapter of my book deals with the subject of beliefs. Beliefs and omens are subjects that are impossible to separate. For instance I find it really interesting that 56 people, a committee, writing the Declaration of Independence could come up with the statement ?...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.? This statement was contrary to the belief at the time that God created some people such as nobles and landowners who were obviously superior. So it is startling to me that a committee of 56 could all agree on something so controversial. However having such a strong statement in writing could be considered to be an omen for a country that has been able to achieve some level of equality for genders and races. It is interesting to note that many of the authors of the Declaration were slave owners. Yes, beliefs is a very interesting subject. Thank you for your input. I'll look at your links, and if I use the info in my book, I'll tell you so that you can reap the paltry reward I've offered Anuttama |
Subject:
Re: Historical examples of when omens occurred
From: anuttama-ga on 06 Oct 2006 10:59 PDT |
Jim Spinner, The Bayeux tapistry link is exactly what I'm looking for. Feel free to collect your reward. Sorry about the amount, but I'm on a shoestring. Anuttama |
Subject:
Re: Historical examples of when omens occurred
From: anuttama-ga on 06 Oct 2006 11:00 PDT |
Myorin, Your first link looks really promising. How can I access the rest of the information in the book? Anuttama |
Subject:
Re: Historical examples of when omens occurred
From: anuttama-ga on 06 Oct 2006 11:04 PDT |
Wow Myoarin, the link beginning with "thefamily" was great. Just what I'm looking for. Definately worth the $5.00--I wish I could pay more. I'll check the other links later. Anuttama |
Subject:
Re: Historical examples of when omens occurred
From: myoarin-ga on 06 Oct 2006 17:41 PDT |
Hi Anuttama, I am so pleased that the links appear useful. I don't know how to access more information about that book - in fact, I could not access the site again. Glad you could. All the comments here are for free! Only official G-A Researchers with blue names can post to the answer box and get the price. By the way, the Declaration of Independence was written mostly by Thomas Jefferson - a committee could never be so poetic and philosophical ("A camel is a horse designed by a committee.") I believe that the passage you quote expresses sentiments that Locke and Hobbes had espoused, political philosophers whose works were very instrumental in the development of democratic thought. I don't think it is an omen but rather an expression of principles. An omen has to be independent of the will of the persons involved: in the stars, tea leaves, augury, etc. Good luck with the book, Myoarin |
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