Somewhere I saw a saying that ran something, but probably not exactly,
like this:  "The tongue that lifteth thee up can also cast thee down."
 Not having it correctly, I have not been able to find it. Question:
what is the exact quote, and where is it from ?

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Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 18 Oct 2006 15:01 PDT

It might help if we knew where you came across this quote. Any
additional information could provide a useful clue, so if you can
think of an approximate "where" or "when," please let us know.

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Clarification of Question by hose7-ga on 18 Oct 2006 15:16 PDT

That's all I have -- sorry -- solution probably cannot be found with
search engines, because of the need for exactness. Needs a widely-read
and wise old gray-head.

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Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 19 Oct 2006 20:20 PDT

I've got a gray head. Let me take a shot. Be back in a minute...

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Request for Question Clarification by tutuzdad-ga on 19 Oct 2006 20:26 PDT

I believe this may be based on one or more Biblical quotes; this first
one in particular. Let me know if these suffice:

James 3:5  "Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great
things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!"

James 3:6  "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity; so is the
tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth
on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell."

James 3:8  "...the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full
of deadly poison."

1 Peter 3:10  "For he that will love life, and see good days, let him
refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile"

What do you think? Convincing enough?

tutuzdad-ga

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Clarification of Question by hose7-ga on 21 Oct 2006 17:21 PDT

No, the idea is not that the tongue is initially insincere, but that
even though sincere, it is inordinately powerful, so that later on it
can just as sincerely pull one down.

I used the word "flattery" inadvisably.

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Clarification of Question by hose7-ga on 22 Oct 2006 18:26 PDT

Myoarin, I don't agree with you that if the initial praise is honest,
then later the praiser wouldn't malign the object of the praise.

Take as an example the plaudits of the sports crowd for a winning
team. Isn't that sincere ?  Yet, later when the team is losing, the
cheers turn to boos.

The moral of the quote I'm looking for is more like Kipling's "... if
all men count with you, but none too much."

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Clarification of Question by hose7-ga on 23 Oct 2006 14:03 PDT

And, it doesn't have to be a crowd phenomenon -- it's something that
happens between lovers.  I've had women pour out their hearts to me in
love, only to describe me later in terms suitable only for Satan. I
have to believe they were sincere in both instances.
I'm sure women have had the same experience with men.
If we didn't have a little of the wisdom shown in my elusive text,
even if unconsciously,we would kill ourselves when we are condemned.

There's a line similar to this in the movie, Babette's Feast. It's
spoken by one of the disciples of the mininster during the feast.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092603/

How does the line read ?

Could it be from Shakespeare or a 16th or 17th century religious leader?

No, this is very frustrating. You have to go by the CONCEPT, which is
that if one lets flattery puff him up, that same source can also bring
one down. The quote includes the word "tongue", but it is not
sufficient to produce some wise saying about a tongue !

I agree with Tutuzdad, that this may be an aphorism based on many
biblical verses about the flattering and evil tongue.  The Bible is
full of them.
Here are a couple of websites:
http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/SinsofTongue.html

http://www.biblebb.com/files/TW/tw-eviltongue.htm
See no. 9:
"9. The evil tongue is the flattering tongue, that will speak fair to
one's face, but will defame, ..."

That is certainly the sentiment of your line.

This site gives the first page of an article about flattery in
Shakespeare's works, but only the first page.  Nonetheless, it
suggests that his works are a source for many statements about
flattery.
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0037-3222%28196524%2916%3A1%3C3%3AWTSMAS%3E2.0.CO%3B2-A&size=SMALL
   If that link doesn't work, search with "the flattering tongue"  and click on
   this site:  JSTOR: Why The Sweets Melted: A Study in Shakespeare's Imagery

Myoarin  - also a grayhead

"No, the idea is not that the tongue is initially insincere, but that
even though sincere, it is inordinately powerful, so that later on it
can just as sincerely pull one down.

I used the word "flattery" inadvisably."    (Hose7-ga, clarification)

Hose7,
I see your point, but can one be alternately sincere in praising and
then later maligning a person?
I don't think so.  
After reading all those statements about the power of the tongue, it
seems that the Bible verses are concerned with the evil a tongue can
do, as is your quotation.   Honest praise is not a problem, but the
speaker wouldn't then malign the person he has praised.  If he does
so, the praise was mere flattery.

That is the warning implicit in 
"The tongue that lifteth thee up can also cast thee down.":
Don't trust words of praise or let them go to your head  - they are
only words - the speaker could just as easily malign you.

But what is the source of that line?

Regards, Myoarin

Hose7,

I see your point.  I was reading the line in the context of morals,
biblical verses, its Elizabethan English as a statement about one
person's split tongue.

Your example of crowd reaction  - the vagaries of the mob -  was
something the Greeks and everyone since  - and probably before -  knew
about.
In that context, the line would fit well in Shakespeare's Julius Ceasar.

However, since the unpredictableness of the mob was recognized to be a
crowd phenomeon, I still doubt that "the tongue" would be used to as
an expression for it, being so obviously a reference to an individual.

Maybe all this will jog some better-read person's mind.

Regards, Myoarin