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Q: Provide Worldwide data on fertility clinics as mentioned in medicalcountries.org ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Provide Worldwide data on fertility clinics as mentioned in medicalcountries.org
Category: Health
Asked by: health777-ga
List Price: $100.00
Posted: 23 Oct 2006 12:55 PDT
Expires: 22 Nov 2006 11:55 PST
Question ID: 776128
Provide Worldwide data on fertility clinics, as mentioned in medical
countries.org, comparing costs, successes, bad effects, and failures.
Males and Females need to know what fertility clinics charge, in
various parts of the world, to help them become fertile. (The costs,
bad effects and good effects of their efforts). Please prepare an
information resource that you will be proud of, to help these people.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Provide Worldwide data on fertility clinics as mentioned in medicalcountries.org
Answered By: bobbie7-ga on 23 Oct 2006 17:26 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Hello again Health777,

Below you will find the results of my research for data, resources and
information regarding fertility clinics worldwide.


*************
United States
*************

The Costs

According to the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, the
average cost of an IVF cycle in the U.S. is $12,400.

?This price will vary depending on where you live, the amount of
medications you're required to take, the number of IVF cycles you
undergo, and the amount your insurance company will pay toward the
procedure. You should thoroughly investigate your insurance company's
coverage of IVF and ask for a written statement of your benefits.
Although some states have enacted laws requiring insurance companies
to cover at least some of the costs of infertility treatment, many
states haven't.?

?Also be aware that some carriers will pay for infertility drugs and
monitoring, but not for the cost of IVF or other artificial
reproductive technology. RESOLVE: The National Infertility Association
publishes a booklet called the "Infertility Insurance Advisor," which
provides tips on reviewing your insurance benefits contract.?
RESOLVE's website is at www.resolve.org.

Success Rates

?Success rates for IVF vary depending on a number of factors,
including the reason for infertility, where you're having the
procedure done, and your age. The CDC compile national statistics for
all assisted reproductive technology procedures performed in the U.S.
The statistics group together all procedures that constitute assisted
reproduction technology (ART), including IVF, GIFT and ZIFT, although
IVF is by far the most common.?

The most recent report from 2000 found:

?Successful pregnancy was achieved in 30.7% of all cycles. 
About 69% of the cycles carried out did not produce a pregnancy. 
Less than 1% of all cycles resulted in an ectopic pregnancy. 
About 11% of these pregnancies involved multiple fetuses. 
About 83% of pregnancies resulted in a live birth. 
About 17% of pregnancies resulted in miscarriage, induced abortion, or
a stillbirth.?

WebMD
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/73/87998.htm


---------------------------------


IntegraMed America
http://www.integramed.com/inmdweb/

U.S. Fertility Clinics by State
http://www.integramed.com/inmdweb/content/cons/clinicbase/clinicsbystate.jsp

IntegraMed? Shared Risk® Refund Program for IVF Treatment
Boost Success and Limit Costs with this Special IVF Treatment Plan

Overview 

"This Program is an alternative payment option for patients undergoing
IVF treatment. Patients that qualify for the Program pay IntegraMed a
fixed fee for up to three IVF cycles and three frozen embryo transfers
in an effort to overcome infertility. If treatment is not successful,
up to 100% of the program fees are refunded."

"Our success rates are high. In fact, nearly 75% of the patients who
complete the program take a baby home!"

"The reality is that most patients will need more than one IVF cycle
to be successful. Patients willing to commit to multiple IVF cycles
can dramatically increase their ability to bring a baby home. The
affordability of multi-cycle treatment, combined with the commitment
of those who enroll has contributed to the high success rate of
patients within the IntegraMed Shared Risk Refund Program."

"The IntegraMed Shared Risk Refund Program maximizes your chances of
success with IVF through a 6-cycle treatment package. Participation in
this program minimizes your financial risk by fixing the cost of
treatment and preserves your financial resources by providing a
significant refund should treatment be unsuccessful."
 
Pre-apply online now
Or call us TOLL FREE 1-866-YOUR-IVF (1-866-968-7483)

http://www.integramed.com/inmdweb/content/cons/shared.jsp



---------------------------------



Assisted Reproductive Technology Success Rates (CDC)

National fertility success rates using fresh or frozen eggs or embryos
by demographic characteristics of women
Data for individual clinics is arranged by state and includes success
rates, causes of infertility, and pregnancy details by age of woman.
http://www.cdc.gov/ART/ART2003/index.htm

Clinic Map

Click on State, choose clinic for success rates and further information.
http://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/ART2003/clinics03.asp

The National Fertility Directory offers the most comprehensive
resources available anywhere for locating a fertility center
http://www.fertilitydirectory.org/locate-fertility-center.html

Search by:

Region   http://www.fertilitydirectory.org/fe-region.html

State     http://www.fertilitydirectory.org/festates.php

Pregnancy success rates are provided for each listing
 


***********
    UK
***********


Find a clinic
http://guide.hfea.gov.uk/guide/

Advanced search
(by treatment, services, region, funding etc?)
http://guide.hfea.gov.uk/guide/Default.aspx?searchtype=advanced

At a glance clinic guide
http://guide.hfea.gov.uk/guide/pdf/AtAGlance.pdf


Another list of clinics
http://www.oneinsix.com/uk_clinics_page.html


---------------------------------


London Women?s Clinic
http://www.londonwomensclinic.com/

Costs
http://www.londonwomensclinic.com/treatments/treatment_costs.html

Success rates
http://www.londonwomensclinic.com/treatments/chances_of_success.html


***********
  Canada
***********


Fertility clinics in Canada
Click on name of clinic for further information
http://www.familyhelper.net/iy/iyclin.html

For example:

Genesis Fertility Centre
http://www.genesis-fertility.com/

Success rates
http://www.genesis-fertility.com/stats/index.htm

Fees 
http://www.genesis-fertility.com/fees/index.htm


Pacific Centre for Reproductive Medicine
http://www.pacificfertility.ca/

Fees 
A typical IVF ± ICSI cycle can range from $5,000-8,000 for treatment
and medication costs can be an additional $2,000-3,000.  Cycle costs
will vary, depending on the need for ICSI, and an individual?s
response to the medications.
http://www.pacificfertility.ca/fertility-treatment-cost.html


UBC Fertility Clinic
http://www.ubcfertility.com/

Fees
http://www.ubcfertility.com/feeschedule.asp?ac=

Success Rates
http://www.ubcfertility.com/invitro.asp#stats



*********
Australia
*********

Sydney IVF

Australia's leading centre for infertility and IVF treatment
http://www.pregnancy-info.net/Infertility/Sydney

Success Rates
http://www.sydneyivf.com/page.cfm?id=38

Current Fees
http://www.sydneyivf.com/page.cfm?id=36

Fees explained
http://www.sydneyivf.com/page.cfm?id=35


-------------------------------------------------------


Here is a list of Infertility Clinics in Australia & New Zealand with
contact information
http://www.nor.com.au/community/aisg/clinics.htm


*******
Turkey
*******

Jinemed Hospital (Istanbul)

Jinemed Hospital, the first IVF clinic of Turkey, offers low-cost
treatments with a strong medical crew of American Board MD's.
http://www.ivfturkey.com/cost

Costs
http://www.ivfturkey.com/ivfcost/

Success rates
http://www.ivfturkey.com/infertility/ivfsuccessrates/


*******
Finland
*******

Väestöliitto
http://www.vaestoliitto.fi/in_english/infertility/

Fees
http://www.vaestoliitto.fi/in_english/infertility/prices/




*****
India
*****


Malpani Infertility Clinic 

Indian clinics are performing a growing number of IVF treatments for
foreigners frustrated with disappointing results and soaring costs at
home.

The number of Brits and Americans coming to Malpani Infertility Clinic
in Bombay has jumped dramatically in the past three years

?Infertile couples are drawn to India largely because of the lower
cost of treatments and lighter regulations. The British Human
Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA) has outlawed payments to
surrogates, but they can be (and usually are) reimbursed for expenses
up to $18,000. On the other hand, the Indian Council of Medical
Research allows Indian surrogates to claim monetary compensation, as
well as expenses?but these usually don?t amount to more than $5,400.
The cost of getting pregnant through IVF treatment in Britain is also
pricey and so complex that the BBC has based a TV drama, ?The Family
Man,? on the adventures of an enigmatic fertility expert. At private
clinics, which do 70 percent of all IVF treatment, costs can run to
$18,000 a cycle. Indian clinics offer the same treatment for around
$7,200?and they throw plane tickets and a hotel stay into the
bargain.?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12289078/site/newsweek/

Malpani Infertility Clinic 
Dr Malpani, Malpani
Infertility Clinic. 
Jamuna Sagar,
Shahid Bhagat Singh Road,
Colaba, Bombay 400 005. 
Tel: 91-22-22151065,
91-22-22151066 
Fax (India): 91-22-2215 0223 

Email: info@drmalpani.com 
http://www.drmalpani.com/

Fees and information
http://www.drmalpani.com/services.htm

Outlook Magazine ranks Malpani Infertility Clinic among the top five
IVF clinics in India.
http://www.drmalpani.com/pressroom.htm


Infertility India.

"A state-of-the-art IVF treatment at affordable prices in a
comfortable atmosphere. We offer all the newest reproductive
techniques, including IVF, ICSI, laser assisted hatching, embryo
freezing, egg donation, PGD , embryo biopsy, and blastocyst transfer.
http://www.infertilityindia.com/
We have been one of the pioneers in the techniques of ICSI, having
done more than 900 cycles with success rates reaching nearly 30%."
http://www.infertilityindia.com/about_us.htm



Here is an extensive list of clinics in India
http://www.oneinsix.com/india_clinics_page.html



*********
Guatemala 
*********

CER

In Vitro Fertilization treatments - Clinic devoted to do In Vitro
Fertilization in Guatemala, Central America. Specializing in ICSI,
intra uterine insemination with facilities for donor eggs or sperm.
http://www.cerivf.com/mainE.htm

Success rates and fees are not provided.

Contact them for further information:

Boulevard Los Próceres, Edificio Unicentro, nivel 13, 
18 calle 5-56 zona 10, Office 1301, 
Guatemala City, Guatemala, Central America.     
Telephone: (502) 2366-5555, 2366-6015, 2366-6025 
E-mail: klopez@guate.net.gt 
 

*****
Spain
*****

Centre for Assisted Reproduction in Marbella

CERAM
http://www.ceram.es/cnew-e/

Success rates 
http://www.ceram.es/cnew-e/resultados.php
(fees not provided)

You can contact them by phone, fax or E-mail.
Telephones: 95 282 90 35 and 95 290 14 51
Fax: 95 277 32 56
E-mail: ceram@ceram.es


-----------------------


CEFER Reproduction Institute                          
http://www.institutocefer.com/
                                                                      
        The appointment can be made by phone or email:
tel.: (+34) 93 254 60 70 
email: info@institutocefer.com 
(fees and success rates are not provided)

 
-----------------------


Instituto Valenciano de IVI                                                  
http://www.ivi.es/eng/pacientes/infertilidad.htm

Make an appointment
http://www.ivi.es/eng/pacientes/cita.htm
(fees and success rates are not provided)




****************************
Infertility treatment abroad
****************************

Find a Clinic 
Details of infertility treatment services available for people from
the UK in countries across Europe
http://www.treatmentabroad.net/infertility-treatment-abroad/find-a-clinic

For a quotation from up to three infertiility clinics overseas,
complete the enquiry form at the bottom of this page-.
http://www.treatmentabroad.net/infertility-treatment-abroad/enquiry-form


IVF clinics overseas 

32 clinics listed

The A-Z listing of IVF clinics in Europe covers countries such as
Belgium, Italy, Portugal, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, France,
Greece,Spain and Czech Republic

Click on name of clinic for information
http://www.treatmentabroad.net/sys_upl/templates/PT_Directory/PT_Directory_Summary.asp?ltr=ALL&pgid=2299&tid=150



Some examples:

ARC-STER srl -  Italy
http://www.arcster.it/chisiamo.htm

Success Rates
http://www.arcster.it/statistiche.htm

Fees
http://www.arcster.it/tariffario.htm


----------------------------------


Centre de Genètica Girona - Spain

Fees and success rates not provided
http://www.centredegeneticagirona.com/

Contact them for this information 
http://www.centredegeneticagirona.com/localizacion.htm

----------------------------------

East Coast Assisted Parenting - Russia

Provide IVF treatment, egg donor and surrogacy programmes for married
couples and single parents. East Coast Assisted Parenting work with
IVF centres located in Moscow and Ekaterinburg, Russia. Donor cycle
cost is between $5,000-6,000

Read more here:
http://www.russiansurrogacy.com/


----------------------------------


Jinemed Hospital - IVF Turkey

The IVF centre at the Jinemed Hospital in Istanbul achieves a 50-60%
success rate in the under 38 age group and offers an IVF/ICSI package
for UK patients at £1,700.

IVF success rates

The hospital carried out 1200 IVF cycles in 2005 with the following
success rates (FSH hormone below 10, with normal uterus and with
ejaculated sperm):

Below age 38 = 50-60% 
Age 38-40 = 40% 
Age 40+ = 25% 

These figures indicate clinical pregnancy.

Prices
Prices compare very favourably with equivalent treatments in western
Europe. Full details available on the hospital's web site - the
following indicative prices are included as a guideline:
IVF including ICSI = £1700 (+ £600-1200 extra medication)
PGD = £900
Micro-TESE (Testicular Sperm Extraction) = £600
Assisted Hatching via Laser, Embryo Glue, Blastocyst Transfer is done
at no extra cost, if necessary
We are allowed to transfer 3 embryos in Turkey
Embryo Freezing and storage = £150
Frozen Embryo Transfer = £1000
IUI (intra-uterine insemination) = £400 
Ovarian Cortex Freezing (only available in a few clinics in the world) = £5700
Hysteroscopy = £1700
Tubal reversal = £1700
http://www.treatmentabroad.net/infertility-treatment-abroad/jinemed-hospital


-----------------------------------------


This Web page contains a list of infertility clinics helping patients
in Australia, Canada, Caribbean, China, Mexico, and the United
Kingdom.
http://www.ihr.com/infertility/provider/

For example:

Argentina
GoSculptura (Buenos Aires)
Based on 350 cycles, our Donor eggs and embryos success rate is 58.3%. 
Based on 250 cycles, our Intra Cytoplasmic Sperm Injection success rate is 38.4% 
Based on 400 cycles, our In Vitro Fertilization success rete is 43.5% 
http://www.gosculptura.com/surgery/assisted/
Leading infertility treatments with accredited experts. IVF treatments
for $5195, ICSI at $5395, and donor eggs at $8995.
http://www.ihr.com/infertility/provider/#Argentina



****
Asia
****

Directoryof  hospitals and clinics that provide IVF fertility services 
http://dmoz.org/Health/Reproductive_Health/Infertility/Clinics_and_Services/Asia/

******
Europe
******

Directory of hospitals and clinics that provide IVF fertility services 
://www.google.com/Top/Health/Reproductive_Health/Infertility/Clinics_and_Services/Europe/


**********************
Additional information
**********************

IHR.com provides links to infertility organizations providing support
for consumers
http://www.ihr.com/infertility/organize.html

The following webpage contains a list organizations providing IVF
financial options for infertility treatment, to help you lower/manage
your costs using:

IVF refund - money-back guarantees or refunds 
IVF financing - low-cost loans for IVF treatment 
low-cost IVF - includes IVF treatment in other countries 
http://www.ihr.com/infertility/provider/financial_assistance.html


---------------------------------

Overseas fees are discussed at this forum:
http://p214.ezboard.com/f1in640715frm1.showMessage?topicID=21.topic


The Cost of a Surrogate in UK & India

http://www.oneinsix.com/costs_page.html
http://www.oneinsix.com/looking.html

---------------------------------


Search terms:

I hope the information provided is helpful!

Best regards,
Bobbie7

Request for Answer Clarification by health777-ga on 03 Nov 2006 13:18 PST
Bobbie, please include more, in your excellent research, of the following:
  
--More info on Mexico?s fertility centers, (located in Mexico), near
border towns such as El Paso and San Diego, (and further in Mexico),
as these centers can be reached with a $200. air fare and  bus and
taxi rides .  People need to know the cost of treatments, surrogates,
eggs, sperm and the results of their treatment, (successes and
failures). This same information needs to be provided for Thailand.

Clarification of Answer by bobbie7-ga on 03 Nov 2006 13:19 PST
Hi Health777!

I will search for more sources from Mexico and Thailand.

Sincerely, 
Bobbie7

Clarification of Answer by bobbie7-ga on 03 Nov 2006 14:39 PST
Hello again Health777,

Below you will find the information requested for Thailand and Mexico.


Thailand?s capital of Bangkok is home to two of the world?s best
fertility clinics. Both the Bumrungrad International Hospital and
Jetanin Institute for Assisted Reproduction are state-of-the-art
medical facilities staffed by doctors who have trained and practiced
in the United States.
http://www.uterus1.com/news/mainstory_pf.cfm?newsarticle=121


Jetanin Institute for Assisted Reproduction is the largest  fertility
clinic in Thailand.

?IVF is the most common procedure for the so-called "fertility
tourists." The process can cost more than US$10,000 in Europe or North
America, but could be as little as one-third that amount here.?
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/worldbiz/archives/2006/08/07/2003322224


Jetanin Institute for Assisted Reproduction

5 Soi Chidlom, Ploenchit Road, 
Lumpinee, Pathumwan, Bangkok 10300
Tel:+66 (0) 2655 5300-10 
Fax:+66 (0) 2655 5313
E-mail: info@jetanin.com
http://www.jetanin.com/main.asp

Success Rates
http://www.jetanin.com/result.htm

Fees
he cost varies between each method, each infertility center and each
country. At Jetanin Hospital the usual cost range from USD 800 - 2,500
or Baht 40,000 - 100,000 for each treatment cycle , excluding the cost
of drugs. When comparing the costs it is important to determine
exactly what is included in the fees.
http://www.jetanin.com/faqs/detail.asp?faqid=2&faq_back=4&faq_next=1


--------------------------------------------


Bumrungrad International Hospital
http://www.bumrungrad.com/

Fertility Center at Bumrungrad International : Dedicated to applying the most
modern technology and expertise to couples needing extra help in
having a child   Physicians, surgeons and embryologists specialized in
fertility
On site embryology laboratory
http://www.bumrungrad.com/htm/eng/main.asp?Filename=clinic/women.asp

LOCATION
Bumrungrad International, 2nd Floor, North Wing
Main Lobby Escalators to the 2nd Floor, turn left to the end of the hallway.

APPOINTMENTS & INQUIRIES
Phone: 66 (0) 2667- 1555
Fax: 66 (0) 2667-1455

Click here to make an appointment  
http://www.bumrungrad.com/htm/eng/make/appoint.asp

PRICES & PACKAGES
If you would like assistance in estimating the cost of treatment for
Women's Center services at Bumrungrad International, please request a
quote here:http://www.bumrungrad.com/htm/eng/give.asp

 
--------------------------------------------


Synphaet Hospital is one of three Ram Group Hospitals in Metro
Bangkok. Synphaet  has a complete IVF and Fertility Lab inside the
hospital. Because of the large volume of patients and the level of
expertise at Synphaet we do all the Fertility work at this hospital.
http://www.ramhospital.com/ivfandics.htm

Send us an email to find out  about our packages. 
info@ramhospital.com

IVF-165,000  to 200,000 Thai baht
$4500-5500 USD at  current exchange rates.
"There is no way of accurately estimating in advance the cost of IVF.
It depends upon your medical history and the amount of medication
required. The maximum you will pay is 200,000 Thai baht or $5500 USD.
Cost in USA $15,000 to $22,000 depending upon location and facilities"

Synaphaet Hospital 
LOCATION
9/99 Ram-intra Rd. (at 8.5 km.), Bung-Rum area
Bangkok 10230 THAILAND
Tel. (02) 9485380-90
Fax. (02) 9485815
http://www.ramhospital.com/About%20Us.htm


--------------------------------------------


?According to AFP/Yahoo! News, the most common procedure sought in
Thailand is IVF, which costs about one-third of U.S. and European
prices.?

Medical News Today
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=49176


Hospitals in Thailand
http://teakdoor.com/health-fitness-and-hospitals-in-thailand/6684-hospitals-in-thailand.html



**************************************************



Mexico

TECNICAS EN REPRODUCCION ASISTIDA
Baja California, 180 - 301
Col. Roma Sur
México D.F., CP 06760
Tel: (52) 55 84 88 41 y  55 64 39 20 
Fax: (52) 10 54 66 51
E-mail: reproduc@mail.internet.com.mx 
http://www.reproduccion.com.mx

Services
http://www.reproduccion.com.mx/services.html

Fees
?The assisted reproductive procedures should be individualized,
according with the history of the couple because what could be good
for one could not be for another.

This difference in the procedure needs, obviously implies different costs.
Remember that the money change rate in Mexico can be very attractive.
Our facilities are near the best hotel zone in Mexico City.
Accommodation and transportation can be easily arranged. "

Send us an e-mail or a fax to personalize the information that you need?
http://www.reproduccion.com.mx/services.html#fares
No success rates provided.


--------------------------------------------


Instituto Médico de la Mujer S.C.
Managua 730 Col. Lindavista 
C.P. 07300 México D.F 
Tel. 5752-1234 
Email: imm@medicomujer.com.mx
http://www.medicomujer.com.mx/servicios/clinicafertilidad/clinicafertilidad.shtml

No fees or success rates provided; only pictures of babies that were
born successfully.
http://www.medicomujer.com.mx/exitos/exitos.shtml



--------------------------------------------



Instituto Mexicano de Infertilidad (IMI)
Address: Tarascos No. 3469-1, Fracc. Monraz, 
Guadalajara, Jalisco
Phone: 813-3044 33/3
http://www.fertilidadhumana.com/

33% success rate
Fees depend upon individual case.


--------------------------------------------



Centro de Reproducción Asistida de Occidente
Av. Hidalgo 793
Guadalajara, Jalisco
Mexico
Phone: (33) 38 25 28 84, 24 30 y 24 78. 
http://www.fertinvitro.com/entrada_flash.htm


Success rate: 27 to 36%
Over 40 years old 10% success rate.
Fees not provided 
http://www.fertinvitro.com/exito.htm

Map
http://www.fertinvitro.com/ubicacion.htm


--------------------------------------------


Instituto de Ciencias en Reproducción Humana: Vida 


Plaza Las Américas 115 
Paseo del Moral y Av. Guanajuato 
Colonia Jardines del Moral, C.P. 37160 
Tel/Fax: +52 (47) 7779-0835, 7779-0836 
http://www.institutovida.com/Leon.asp

Hospital de Especialidades Puerta de Hierro  
Av. Empresarios # 150, Planta Baja  
Colonia Puerta de Hierro 
Tel/Fax: +52 (33) 3642-7399, 3642-7394, 3642-2764 
http://www.institutovida.com/Guadalajara.asp

Calle Alhelies # 51, entre 1a y 2da 
Colonia Jardín, C.P. 87330 
Matamoros, Tamaulipas 
Tel: +52 (86) 8816-2625, 
Fax: 8812-2223 
http://www.institutovida.com/Matamoros.asp
 

Av. Colón # 204d x 26  
Colonia García Gineres  
Tel: +52 (999) 925-2020, 925-2120 y 925-3020  
Mérida, Yucatán
http://www.institutovida.com/merida.asp
 

Fees depend on individual case. 
http://www.institutovida.com/faq.asp


--------------------------------------------


According to this article, the average price range is $5,200 to $7,700 USD. 
http://www.fertilityworld.org/content/doc_809/en/version_1/doc.asp


I hope this is helpful!



Sincerely,
Bobbie7
health777-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $100.00
A detailed, thoughtful, intelligent search!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comments  
Subject: Re: Provide Worldwide data on fertility clinics as mentioned in medicalcountries
From: keystroke-ga on 03 Nov 2006 17:24 PST
 
Health777--

If you still would like an answer to this question: 764178

At the time it was posted, I had done quite a bit of preliminary
research, but got caught up in some other things and never got a
chance to complete it.  I would answer the question if you're
interested in posting it again.

--keystroke-ga
Subject: Re: Provide Worldwide data on fertility clinics as mentioned in medicalcountries.org
From: bobbie7-ga on 08 Nov 2006 09:05 PST
 
Dear Health777,

Thank you very much for the kind words, five stars and generous tip!

Sincerely, 
Bobbie7

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