I have a water well that supplies my house.  The water is very hard,
>15, but I have a softener that is working just fine.  I can tell on
the rare occasions when it isn't working the minute I step in the
shower.  In spite of the fact that the water is softened, I have a
ongoing problem with faucets and other valves binding and quickly
(couple of years) needing replacement.  There is
green corrosion around the outside many of the copper valves.  A water
testing guy tells me the pH is low at around 6.7 but may understanding
of "hard"
water is that it should be high pH.  I tested it with a fish tank
testing kit and get a ph around 7.7.   Any ideas what is going on
here.  The house is located in North Caldwell, Essex County, NJ.  I
have inspected the inside of the copper heating pipes and they look
ok.  Thanks.

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Request for Question Clarification by denco-ga on 11 Nov 2006 20:46 PST

Howdy plocht-ga,

I am posting this as a request for clarification so you can have a chance to
make sure this tests out to be your problem.  If it does, please indicate that
back here so I can post this as the answer to your question.  Thanks!

I am thinking that you actually have an electrical grounding problem with your
house.  This Argonne National Laboratory "Ask A Scientist" article has more.

"Copper Pipe Corrosion"
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03191.htm

"Is the water acidic or (preferred) alkaline? Is the plumbing system
electrically isolated from an earth ground? Either or both of these
will
encourage corrosion of copper plumbing."

You know from your testing that the water is not acidic, so an electrolytic
process might be the problem in your situation.

Sometimes wells are connected to a house with plastic pipe, as is the case with
my house.  As well, electrical systems sometimes have various ground wires
connected to the copper pipes.  As an example, if both happened, you could get
an electrical "trickle" across your copper pipes and valves that could cause
the corrosion you are seeing.

Regardless of your specifics perhaps being different from the above example,
you will probably want to get an electrician to check that everything is
properly grounded.  If that is the case, fixing such a problem should also
clear up the corrosion problem.

Another way to possibly test my theory is to have the water tested for high
levels of copper, as this can also be an indication of an improperly grounded
electrical system tied to the copper pipes.  Needless to say, high copper
levels in your water is probably not a good thing either.

Looking Forward, denco-ga - Google Answers Researcher

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Clarification of Question by plocht-ga on 16 Nov 2006 12:56 PST

Hi just had the pH done on fresh sample using a professional
pharmaceutical laboratory.  The pH of the hard water came out at 6.9
and the softened water at 7.4.

---

Clarification of Question by plocht-ga on 16 Nov 2006 13:00 PST

Also, another observation, all glassware in washed in the dishwasher
becomes extremely cloudy over a period of time.

---

Request for Question Clarification by denco-ga on 16 Nov 2006 14:15 PST

Howdy Tom,

You comment: "Yes, the water supply is connected to the well head via a plastic
pipe.  I will look, but there probably are 'grounds' attached to the plumbing.
I'll bet you hit on the answer."

Once you check this, or have it checked out, please post the results back here.
Also, if your house has improper grounding, this could be a larger problem than
the ones you describe here.  Thanks!

Looking Forward, denco-ga - Google Answers Researcher

---

Clarification of Question by plocht-ga on 16 Nov 2006 16:46 PST

Dear denco-ga 

You have earned your fee.  Thanks.  I get 0.1 volts from my home
plumbing to a true ground.  As an aside, I have recently had city
water brought into the house but connected to nothing at the moment. 
When I go across the home plumbing to the new cooper city water
service I get 0.1 volts.  Thanks for your help.

Tom

Howdy Tom,

Much thanks for accepting this as the answer to your question.

It appears that your problem of corrosion and valve binding could very well be
from having an electrical grounding problem with your house.  This Argonne
National Laboratory "Ask A Scientist" article has more on the subject.

"Copper Pipe Corrosion"
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03191.htm

"Is the water acidic or (preferred) alkaline? Is the plumbing system
electrically isolated from an earth ground? Either or both of these will
encourage corrosion of copper plumbing."

You know from your testing that the water is not acidic, so an electrolytic
process might be the problem in your situation.

Sometimes wells are connected to a house with plastic pipe, as is the case with
my house.  As well, electrical systems sometimes have various ground wires
connected to the copper pipes.  As an example, if both happened, you could get
an electrical "trickle" across your copper pipes and valves that could cause
the corrosion you are seeing.

Regardless of your specifics perhaps being different from the above example,
you will probably want to get an electrician to check that everything is
properly grounded.  If that is the case, fixing such a problem should also
clear up the corrosion problem.

As you have stateed, you are seeing some voltage across your plumbing and true
ground, so getting some proper grounding in place couldn't hurt.

Another way to possibly test my theory is to have the water tested for high
levels of copper, as this can also be an indication of an improperly grounded
electrical system tied to the copper pipes.  Needless to say, high copper
levels in your water is probably not a good thing either.

Here is another resource that you should read on this subject, this from the
Clean Water Store website.

"Correcting or Reducing Corrosion in Home and Commercial Piping Systems"
http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/technical/manuals_guides/tech_corrosion_copper.html

"According to some estimates, corrosion costs the United States more than
$1 billion a year. Copper corrosion in home plumbing systems is an extremely
common phenomenon, which can have many causes."

If you need any clarification, please feel free to ask.


Search strategy:

I reside in a house that has a similar system and was warned specifically
about this potential problem.

Google search on: copper corrosion
://www.google.com/search?q=copper+corrosion

Looking Forward, denco-ga - Google Answers Researcher

Great research. Right on the money with the answer. Thanks. Tom

pH tests the acidity/alkalinity of water; it does not test for hardness.

For your own health (as well for the probs cited) you should test your
water exhaustively and regularly for all kinds of stuff:

http://www.engr.uga.edu/service/extension/publications/c819-9c.html

Significant amounts of dissolved carbon dioxide are often present in
groundwater, which if not properly treated, can be extremely
aggressive to copper tube. The effect is most commonly referred to as
Acold water pitting,@ and is characteristically observed in cold water
plumbing, but not in hot. Pitting under these conditions is less
sensitive to the effect of gravity, and as a rule, does not occur
preferentially on the bottom of horizontal tubing, but rather, is
distributed around the entire inside surface of the tube. Cold water
pitting can be very aggressive, penetrating the tube wall in a
relatively short time, but usually within three to four years after
being placed in ser
vice...

http://www.wsscwater.com/copperpipe/letters/copperpipewp.cfm

Yes, the water supply is connected to the well head via a plastic
pipe.  I will look, but there probably are "grounds" attached to the
plumbing.  I'll bet you hit on the answer.  That thought was just
entering my mind also.  Tom

Dear denco-ga 

You have earned your fee.  Thanks.  I get 0.1 volts from my home
plumbing to a true ground.  As an aside, I have recently had city
water brought into the house but connected to nothing at the moment. 
When I go across the home plumbing to the new cooper city water
service I get 0.1 volts.  Thanks for your help.

Tom

My pleasure Tom, and much thanks for the kind words, 5 star rating and generous
tip.  Glad to have been of service.

Looking Forward, denco-ga - Google Answers Researcher