Hi, guys!
They say third time is the charm. Although my previous two questions
were definitely weird, this one should be the most answerable yet :-)

I have a bachelor of computer science diploma from Technical
University of Munich (Germany) that was evaluated by http://ece.org/.
No problems at all.
As I now have discovered, the copies of the evaluation report can not
substitute a transcript from the actual university (at least, not at
any of the schools I want to apply to). German universities however
don't issue transcripts on regular basis. I managed to get them to
send one transcript out (after I had to go from California to Munich
just to that purpose), but I don't want to deal with their bureaucracy
any longer.

---
The actual question follows
---

What I want to do instead is to apply for an undergraduate computer
science program at an American university, transfer all of my courses,
and get THEIR bachelor of computer science diploma. I am willing to take up to 3
courses and/or pay up to 5,000$ for my adventure.
Do you know of any good colleges that would allow me to do that? 
Thanks for any help!

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Clarification of Question by sp007c-ga on 21 Nov 2006 16:56 PST

I add a tip of 25$ if the school you find is in Bay Area, CA.

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Request for Question Clarification by czh-ga on 21 Nov 2006 22:41 PST

Hello sp007c-ga,

What is the real problem prompting your question? Why do you need a
transcript of your German college program? Do you want to apply to a
graduate program in the US? Do you need a transcript to qualify for a
job or something else? It is highly unlikely that any US college would
let you transfer foreign college courses toward a degree as you
envision.

Please tell us more about the context of your question so that we can
help you with your specific problem.

I look forward to your clarification.

~ czh ~

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Clarification of Question by sp007c-ga on 22 Nov 2006 08:06 PST

I want to apply for a graduate program.

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Request for Question Clarification by politicalguru-ga on 22 Nov 2006 08:36 PST

Now I am really confused: even if we assume that there was such a
university that was willing to transfer all of your degree but three
courses to the States, you will have to show them transcripts, in
order to "prove" that you've done these courses!

Is this the degree that you have?
http://wwwpa.in.tum.de/inf-diplom/

http://portal.mytum.de/studium/studiengaenge_en/informatik_diplom

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Clarification of Question by sp007c-ga on 22 Nov 2006 09:12 PST

I have one official transcript plus the evaluation report from ECE
(see the link in my original post). Unfortunately, these are not
enough for the graduate programs in excelelnt universities (Stanford,
Berkley etc.), but I thought they might be enough for an undergraduate
program in a not-so-excellent (but still good) college.
Here is my program btw:
http://wwwpa.in.tum.de/inf-bachelor/

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Request for Question Clarification by czh-ga on 22 Nov 2006 10:14 PST

You say you're interested in enrolling at a top university like
Stanford. These universities are familiar with dealing with foreign
students. For example, here are the requirements for graduate
admissions at Stanford.

----
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/gradadmissions/information/international.html
International Academic Credentials

Stanford's assessment of a foreign degree is based on the
characteristics of a national educational system, the type of
institution attended, and the level of studies completed. The
following guidelines indicate the minimum level of study required of
applicants who wish to apply for graduate study at Stanford:

c) Germany: the diplom, magister atrium (M.A.), or staatsexamen. 

Two academic records from every postsecondary institution attended for
at least one year as a full-time student should be submitted with your
application. Academic records should give detailed information on the
content and the quality of your performance, courses taken each year
and grades received. The grading scale of the institution and your
rank in class should be noted whenever possible. Degrees must be
verified by official copies of diplomas or conferral statements on
academic records.
----

It seems that you will have to have either a transcript or something
equivalent. Have you contacted any of the schools you're interested in
to find out how to address their requirements?

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Clarification of Question by sp007c-ga on 22 Nov 2006 10:44 PST

>>>
"Two academic records from every postsecondary institution attended for
at least one year as a full-time student should be submitted with your
application. Academic records should give detailed information on the
content and the quality of your performance, courses taken each year
and grades received. The grading scale of the institution and your
rank in class should be noted whenever possible. Degrees must be
verified by official copies of diplomas or conferral statements on
academic records."
<<<
My German university (TU Munich) tells me that they can not issue any
official academic records, except the one official diploma/record I
received after graduation.

Last year, I got TUM to verify ONE set of official copies of my
diploma after I had to travel to Munich (they don't verify any copies
unless you are physically present- one reason I don't wish to deal
with bureaucracy in my ex-university any more).

Unfortunately, I found out that those copies weren't enough, as
Stanford indeed expects that I send them OFFICIAL transcrips as well.
But again, as per German policy, I can only be in the possession of
one official transcipt.

Also, while I do appreciate you repeating the same steps I undertook
last year, could we focus on my original question, please?
Thanks :-)

---

Request for Question Clarification by czh-ga on 22 Nov 2006 11:41 PST

Hello sp007c-ga,

This is a tough problem. Obviously you're not the first German student
who has ever applied to Stanford and similar universities. They must
have established policies on what you have to do to meet the
requirement for undergraduate transcripts.

I have requested information from the Stanford Graduate Admissions
office. They are closed for the Thanksgiving holiday so please be
patient. I will not get an answer from them until next week at the
earliest. If you have already contacted them please let me know what
they told you. Thanks.

~ czh ~

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Clarification of Question by sp007c-ga on 22 Nov 2006 15:34 PST

Czh, I am not sure you're doing something that would be worth my 150$.
1. I contacted Stanford last year (I work for them) and they explained
it all to me. So I doubt you could find out something new.
2. I want an American bachelor's degree in computer science anyway. So
even if Stanford, however unlikely, had some new information about
their graduate program, I wouldn't want TU Munich to be part of my
application. The strict requirements of a university like Stanford
would make my dealing with people 10,000 miles away a living hell.
Happy Thanksgiving!

---

Request for Question Clarification by czh-ga on 22 Nov 2006 19:41 PST

Hello sp007c-ga,

There is no way for us researchers to know what you've already done
unless you tell us. You had not indicated what research you've
conducted and who you have contacted. You described a problem and
we're trying to find a solution for you. It seems there is no way to
get around the lack of a transcript from your school. I'm sure many
other students have grappled with this problem so one solutions would
be to find out what are the procedures for overcoming this difficulty.
Please describe what research you've conducted so that we can
determine whether getting your German degree accepted without an
official transcript is a hopeless cause.

If you believe the only way around your problem is to get a US degree
we're working on a different challenge. From my experience working
with students, I doubt that any reputable US university would be
willing to convert your German degree into a US undergrad degree with
just three classes taken with them. It would be helpful if you spelled
out ALL the research you've already done on this so someone can help
you.

Good luck.

~ czh ~

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Request for Question Clarification by politicalguru-ga on 23 Nov 2006 01:23 PST

I could think of one way, in which you can get an American bachelor
degree in a relatively short time without repeating all of the
courses, but this would not be as easy as transferring your courses to
an American university:
- as noted before, in order to transfer and get recognition, you'd
still need a transcript!
- therefore, you'd still would have to get all of the credits for your
new bachelor. There's a way to make shortcuts, but not as easy as
doing only three courses.

In addition, I am not so sure this is such a great idea, if the only
reason for you to repeat the degree is not to have to deal with German
inefficiency. Do you really ?throw away? those five years of education
and hard work?

In any case, do you want the bachelor shortcut mentioned above as an answer?

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Clarification of Question by sp007c-ga on 23 Nov 2006 11:46 PST

"is not to have to deal with German inefficiency"
---
I want to be clear about this. It's not German inefficiency (an
oxymoron in itself, probably) that is to blame. It's German public
education system in which there is no tuition. And although my program
was excellent (I took many courses that are taking during graduate
years in theUS), I guess I got what I deserved from organizational
point of viel

What kind of a short-cut is it?
1. Is it legal? Is it official?
2. How much of an effort is it? I am 100% employed with a private
project on the side. I want to spend at most 5 hours per week on
getting my US bachelor's degree.

Also, what noone seems to have picked up yet, I got an evaluation
report from ECE. I mean, they basically say that I already have an
equivalent to an American B.Sc. degree. This must count somewhere.

---

Clarification of Question by sp007c-ga on 26 Nov 2006 11:03 PST

Please be aware that all information that is relevant to my question
is scattered all over the thread. Because it became such a gloomy
suituation, I am offering you a tip of 100$ if you just tell me about
any schools that are known to have done what I want (not just those in
Bay Area).

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Request for Question Clarification by czh-ga on 01 Dec 2006 10:34 PST

Hello again sp007c-ga,

I?ve gotten an answer from Graduate Admissions at Stanford. As you?ve
found previously, you will need verified records from your German
school to complete the application process at Stanford. These
requirements are similar to all colleges and universities.


-----
From: Grad Admissions [gradadmissions@stanford.edu]
Sent: Fri 12/1/2006 8:57 AM

We have many applicants and current students from 
German Universities who have been able to bring 
their original documentation with them when they 
arrive to Stanford. He can submit unofficial 
transcripts that are signed/verified by a school 
administrative officer for the initial review of 
his application by the department and if offered 
admission he can bring his original records with 
him to the Graduate Admissions Office for verification.

Best Wishes,
Graduate Admissions
-----


Please note that even if you get another undergraduate degree from an
American university, you will still have to list your German schooling
on your American college applications. All of the college/university
applications I?ve reviewed ask you to list ALL post-secondary
education. Even if they didn?t, you would have to explain on your
resume what you were doing during the years you were obtaining the
German degree.

I?ve found one shortcut to an American college degree. Some schools
allow you to challenge courses and get credit through examination. My
review of these programs shows that they would not meet your
requirement of taking only three more courses to get a second American
undergraduate degree.

I?m sorry I haven?t been able to find a solution to your problem. Best
wishes for your future academic career.

~ czh ~

Most U.S. schools will require that at least half of the courses
applicable to the degree be taken at the school itself.  This includes
core as well as major requirements.

And you WILL need the transcripts to transfer courses.

If I need to get one more German transcript only, I'll do it. But
taking more than three undergraduate courses is out-of-the-question: I
simply have no time for that. Now, if it were only about the money...

So what you are saying is....
you want to transfer what you have already done at your german
university to an american one without any sort of transcript or run
down of what you have completed and expect them to help you get an
american degree without putting the complete effort in of completing
it?

good luck dude :D

Why, if you already think that you have gotten the equivalent of an
American bachelor's, would you like to get the American bachelor's
itself?

If I'm not mistaken, undergrad work in Europe is for three years,
rather than the four required in America, so it usually does not
transfer 1:1, even with the ECE certification.

An American college is not going to just hand you a degree with you
having taken the equivalent of only two classes per week (five hours
of work), and they are certainly not going to admit you without a
transcript, because that would mean anyone could come in off the
street and say they graduated from a German university.

I wouldn't mind getting a European degree equivalent to my American
degree, but I know that if I wanted to get one, I'd have to do the
work of that institution and not expect them to simply hand me their
degree equivalent on the basis of my prior work.

If the uni cannot help you any more what could GA do for you?

hlpusr,
I see that on the one hand, what I ask for might indeed be too much.
On the other hand, instead of a transcript, I DO have the evaluation
report from ECE. And while Stanford (etc.) doesn't accept it for their
graduate programs, I assume that some less famous colleges might for
their undergrad programs.
Plus, the lucky college could make an easy buck on me. Money is not a
problem, I just don't want to spend much team repeating the
coursework.