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Subject:
German and French musical notation
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Music Asked by: tosca-ga List Price: $10.00 |
Posted:
23 Oct 2002 03:07 PDT
Expires: 22 Nov 2002 02:07 PST Question ID: 88503 |
Why do German speakers use letter H for the note that English speakers call B? Equally, B for our Bb, Es for Eb, As for Ab? B was always the most problematic note as the modes developed and scales came into use during the mediaeval period - but why the different naming conventions? And why do the French use the tonic sol-fa names (ut for C, re for D, mi for E and so on)? |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: German and French musical notation
From: kriswrite-ga on 23 Oct 2002 07:39 PDT |
Hello Tosca~ I am not including this as an official answer, because I'm not sure a definitive answer can be given. As with many aspects of history, some of the changes to music elude the historian. The history of music notation is not only fascinating, but vast; many areas of the world developed their own forms of music notation separately (which accounts for the variety of styles of music notation until modern standardization occurred). Here are some basics with regard to your questions: In the 12th century, Guido dArezzo tried to perfect a method of music notation that would work well on early papers (as opposed to parchment) by indicating pitch on a stave, using *letters,* not notes, as we do today. Apparently, notes, when written on early paper with quills, made for a black blobby mess that was nearly impossible to read. In this early history of music, a lower case "b" was used to indicate what we today call B flat. (In fact, today we use a stylized lower case "b" to symbolize all flats.) In Germany, a squared-off lower case "b" was the symbol for a natural. (Again, if you write out a "b," making the lines squared instead of rounded, it's easy to see how our modern natural symbol was derived.) Due to early printing limitations, German printers began using the lower case letter "h" to indicate a natural. Therefore, our modern "B flat" was then simply a "b," and our modern "B" was then indicated by "h." Guido dArezzo also developed "mi, fa, sol," etc. by giving each note the initial of a Latin hymn. The French probably originally adopted these for singers, but eventually the initials came to mean specific pitches. For more about the origin of music notation, try this site: http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory2.htm#origin For a brief history of music symbols, try this site: http://www.highhopes.com/musicsymbols.html Keywords Used: German H "music notation" History "music notation" kriswrite-ga |
Subject:
Re: German and French musical notation
From: kriswrite-ga on 23 Oct 2002 07:43 PDT |
Tosca~ If you are happy with the above answer to your question, I will submit it as an official answer. Thanks! kriswrite |
Subject:
Re: German and French musical notation
From: tosca-ga on 23 Oct 2002 08:59 PDT |
kriswrite Thanks for this, and for a quick response. I suspected that there might not be anything more definitive to be found. Did you have any luck with the Es/As notation? I don't think that's covered by any of the info you have unearthed so far. |
Subject:
Re: German and French musical notation
From: kriswrite-ga on 23 Oct 2002 09:12 PDT |
Tosca~ I didn't find anything (in a rather extensive search) that explained the *origin* of the Es/As notation sufficiently. I imagine, however, that information would be available in a good book on the history of notation. kriswrite |
Subject:
Re: German and French musical notation
From: zhiwenchong-ga on 23 Oct 2002 09:35 PDT |
Here's one part of the puzzle: The letter H is used in German to denote the English note B, while B in German signifies the English B flat. In the use of the letters of a word to form a musical motif, the presence of H allows a complete musical version of the name BACH (B flat - A - C - B = German: B - A - C - H), used by various composers, including Liszt. The Russian composer Dmitry Shostakovich uses a musical cryptogram derived from the first letters of his name in German, DSCH, which becomes D - Es (= E flat) - C - H. This occurs in a number of his works as a kind of musical signature. http://www.theviolin.freeserve.co.uk/h.htm |
Subject:
Re: German and French musical notation
From: tosca-ga on 24 Oct 2002 02:12 PDT |
kriswrite OK, thanks very much for your research. I've never come across an explanation for the Es notation but I'll keep looking. (It's tempting to suspect that it was a deliberate move by a composer with an S in his name, purely so that he could play the sort of musical games zhiwenchong refers to!) By the way, those two examples are the ones most used, but a more interesting one, I think, is that Brahms quoted the name of his fiancee Agathe in his second string sextet, using a D and a B (H) played together to signify the TH sound. He didn't marry her though! Please post your answer, but I'd still love to get more comments from people. Tosca |
Subject:
Re: German and French musical notation
From: kriswrite-ga on 24 Oct 2002 06:08 PDT |
Hi again Tosca~ I'm still trying to track down the "final answer" to your question. I just sent out emails to some experts, so hopefully one of them can enlighten us both! kriswrite |
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