Google Answers Logo
View Question
 
Q: German and French musical notation ( No Answer,   7 Comments )
Question  
Subject: German and French musical notation
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Music
Asked by: tosca-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 23 Oct 2002 03:07 PDT
Expires: 22 Nov 2002 02:07 PST
Question ID: 88503
Why do German speakers use letter H for the note that English speakers
call B? Equally, B for our Bb, Es for Eb, As for Ab? B was always the
most problematic note as the modes developed and scales came into use
during the mediaeval period - but why the different naming
conventions? And why do the French use the tonic sol-fa names (ut for
C, re for D, mi for E and so on)?
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: German and French musical notation
From: kriswrite-ga on 23 Oct 2002 07:39 PDT
 
Hello Tosca~

I am not including this as an official answer, because I'm not sure a
definitive answer can be given. As with many aspects of history, some
of the changes to music elude the historian. The history of music
notation is not only fascinating, but vast; many areas of the world
developed their own forms of music notation separately (which accounts
for the variety of styles of music notation until modern
standardization occurred). Here are some basics with regard to your
questions:

In the 12th century, Guido d’Arezzo tried to perfect a method of music
notation that would work well on early papers (as opposed to
parchment) by indicating pitch on a stave, using *letters,* not notes,
as we do today. Apparently, notes, when written on early paper with
quills, made for a black blobby mess that was nearly impossible to
read.

In this early history of music, a lower case "b" was used to indicate
what we today call B flat. (In fact, today we use a stylized lower
case "b" to symbolize all flats.) In Germany, a squared-off lower case
"b" was the symbol for a natural. (Again, if you write out a "b,"
making the lines squared instead of rounded, it's easy to see how our
modern natural symbol was derived.) Due to early printing limitations,
German printers began using the lower case letter "h" to indicate a
natural. Therefore, our modern "B flat" was then simply a "b," and our
modern "B" was then indicated by "h."

Guido d’Arezzo also developed "mi, fa, sol," etc. by giving each note
the initial of a Latin hymn. The French probably originally adopted
these for singers, but eventually the initials came to mean specific
pitches.

For more about the origin of music notation, try this site:
http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory2.htm#origin

For a brief history of music symbols, try this site:
http://www.highhopes.com/musicsymbols.html

Keywords Used:
German H "music notation"
History "music notation"


kriswrite-ga
Subject: Re: German and French musical notation
From: kriswrite-ga on 23 Oct 2002 07:43 PDT
 
Tosca~

If you are happy with the above answer to your question, I will submit
it as an official answer.

Thanks!
kriswrite
Subject: Re: German and French musical notation
From: tosca-ga on 23 Oct 2002 08:59 PDT
 
kriswrite

Thanks for this, and for a quick response. I suspected that there
might not be anything more definitive to be found. Did you have any
luck with the Es/As notation? I don't think that's covered by any of
the info you have unearthed so far.
Subject: Re: German and French musical notation
From: kriswrite-ga on 23 Oct 2002 09:12 PDT
 
Tosca~

I didn't find anything (in a rather extensive search) that explained
the *origin* of the Es/As notation sufficiently. I imagine, however,
that information would be available in a good book on the history of
notation.

kriswrite
Subject: Re: German and French musical notation
From: zhiwenchong-ga on 23 Oct 2002 09:35 PDT
 
Here's one part of the puzzle:

The letter H is used in German to denote the English note B, while B
in German signifies the English B flat. In the use of the letters of a
word to form a musical motif, the presence of H allows a complete
musical version of the name BACH (B flat - A - C - B = German: B - A -
C - H), used by various composers, including Liszt. The Russian
composer Dmitry Shostakovich uses a musical cryptogram derived from
the first letters of his name in German, DSCH, which becomes D - Es (=
E flat) - C - H. This occurs in a number of his works as a kind of
musical signature.
http://www.theviolin.freeserve.co.uk/h.htm
Subject: Re: German and French musical notation
From: tosca-ga on 24 Oct 2002 02:12 PDT
 
kriswrite

OK, thanks very much for your research. I've never come across an
explanation for the Es notation but I'll keep looking. (It's tempting
to suspect that it was a deliberate move by a composer with an S in
his name, purely so that he could play the sort of musical games
zhiwenchong refers to!)

By the way, those two examples are the ones most used, but a more
interesting one, I think, is that Brahms quoted the name of his
fiancee Agathe in his second string sextet, using a D and a B (H)
played together to signify the TH sound. He didn't marry her though!

Please post your answer, but I'd still love to get more comments from
people.

Tosca
Subject: Re: German and French musical notation
From: kriswrite-ga on 24 Oct 2002 06:08 PDT
 
Hi again Tosca~

I'm still trying to track down the "final answer" to your question. I
just sent out emails to some experts, so hopefully one of them can
enlighten us both!
kriswrite

Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  


Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy