Goal: share the root of C in Windows XP *Home* such that *all*
contents are accessible over the network via this *one* share. This
was easy in Win98 and possible in 2k and XP Pro.
Problem: XP Home handles the C:\Windows, "Program Files" and
"Documents and Settings" folders in a special way that denies access
to some/all of their contents. I need access to all the contents of
C, including these "special" folders, all via *one* share.
Answer requirements: Walk through the sequence of steps required to
reach the goal. Assume a intermediate level of Windows experience.
Secondary Goal: It would be nice if the solution, once applied, would
automattically apply to future additions to the computer, like users
being added, etc. I think this will boil down to any changed
permissions being inherited automatically.
** no payment for a "can't be done" answer **
** no payment for partial or non-working answers that don't solve the
explicit goal above **
I've already searched the obvious things on the net, and have come up
with some suggestions, but all fail to deliver. |
Request for Question Clarification by
davidmaymudes-ga
on
23 Oct 2002 11:45 PDT
what is it that isn't working? One of my computers is running XP
Home, and I have the C drive shared out.... I can see everything in
the "Windows" directories, and while it's a bit annoying to have to
use the path \\<computername>\c\Documents and Settings\<username>\My
Documents to get to things that used to be at \\<computername>\c\My
documents, I don't have any problems accessing anything....
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Request for Question Clarification by
pwizard-ga
on
23 Oct 2002 12:33 PDT
The problem that you are having is most likely a direct result of
"Simplified File Sharing" that has been implemented in Windows XP.
Unlike Windows XP Pro, this feature CANNOT be disabled in Windows XP
Home as XP Home cannot authenticate to a domain and has had it's
advanced sharing/networking featured "neutered" if you will. There is
a fairly decent article that explains Simplified File Sharing at
Microsoft's website:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q304040&sd=tech
One thing you can try is to access the ADMIN share on the XP Home
computer (available as C$ or D$, etc) and see if this will allow you
to access all of the drive's contents from a single share. You will
need the administrator's password for the XP Home PC. Simply map a
drive to \\xphome_computername\C$ to access the entire C: drive for
that machine. You might get the same results as you have previously,
but it's worth a shot.
Another good article on the Admin shares:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q314984&sd=tech
I hope that helps.
Sincerely,
PWizard
|
Hi there,
Good news! I had this same problem on my friend's laptop which had XP
home installed and I found a work around for it. As PWizard noted in
the request for clarification above, you're not supposed to be able to
disable it. However, I'll tell you how to do it =)
First off you need to reboot your computer and go into safe mode. To
do that, press and hold the F8 key right when your bios finishes
loading, or if you get a boot loading menu press F8 then. From the
menu that comes up select safe mode and wait for your comp to boot up.
Once windows loads log in with an account that has admin privledges.
When you're in safe mode, the XP home security system acts just like
it did in 2k and in XP Pro.
Anyway, once in safe mode you should be able share the C drive and set
the permissions accordingly. To do so, first right click on your C
drive in Windows Explorer and choose Properties. Select the security
tab and click the advanced button. Now you should be looking at a
screen with permission entries for each user type on your computer.
Click on the entry for Everyone and click Edit. Click the full control
checkbox (or customize it according to your needs) and from the Apply
onto dropdown box change it from "This folder only" (or whatever it's
currently at) to "This folder, subfolders, and files." By using the
Everyone entry, adding users to the computer should have the
permissions automatically. Once you save the settings by clicking okay
a few times you should be set!
The only shortcoming to this, and as far as I know there is no way
around it, is that you need to boot into safe mode whenever you need
to make changes.
Hopefully that'll solve your problem. If any of this is unclear, or
doesn't work for you, please let me know by requesting clarification
and I'll be glad to help.
Resources you might want to check out:
Windows Xp Home: Sharing Disks and Folders
http://www.wown.com/j_helmig/wxpnetsh.htm#save
Win XP Home Networking: Two Steps Back
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,6050,00.asp
Deadlychiapet-ga
Google search terms used:
xp home file sharing safe mode |
Request for Answer Clarification by
tcordes-ga
on
25 Oct 2002 08:18 PDT
I just did exactly as you specified and it still does not work. You
can see most of the drive's contents on the share but the contents of
Program Files and most of the individual users' folders in "Documents
and Settings" are empty or "access denied". This is exactly what was
happening before and was clearly stated in my original question.
Did you test to see if you could actually get into those
specially-handled folders? That's what I need to access.
Perhaps you forgot to mention something else you did, like changes to
individual user's permissions, or setting passwords?
Your answer as it stands does not solve the originally stated problem.
Thank you.
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
tcordes-ga
on
25 Oct 2002 08:27 PDT
To davidmaymudes-ga:
"use the path \\<computername>\c\Documents and Settings\<username>\My
Documents"
I tried typing it in directly (because it won't let you browser any
farther than <username>) and it says "Windows cannot find ..."
You must be doing something else that I am not, or are confusing XP
Home with XP Pro.
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
tcordes-ga
on
25 Oct 2002 08:57 PDT
To pwizard-ga:
"access the ADMIN share on the XP Home computer (available as C$ or
D$, etc)"
I just tried accessing the admin share (as Administrator) C$ and it
says "the network path \\machinename\C$ could not be found". Do I
have to do anything special beforehand to set it up on the XP Home
machine?
|
Clarification of Answer by
deadlychiapet-ga
on
25 Oct 2002 11:34 PDT
Hi there,
It looks like I missed a rather important step. Sorry about that.
Here's what you need to do:
Once you set up the Everyone entry go back to the Advanced Security
Settings dialog box. At the bottom under the Add, Edit, and Remove
buttons there should be a checkbox labelled "Replace permission
entries on all child objects with entries shown here that apply to
child objects." Press okay (or apply) and press okay on the dialog box
that will pop up.
Once that's done there should be no problem. You should be able to see
all files and folders and be rid of any access denied messages.
Hope that solves your problem! As always, feel free to ask for
clarification if you need further help.
Deadlychiapet-ga
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
tcordes-ga
on
25 Oct 2002 12:02 PDT
"Replace permission entries on all child objects with entries shown
here that apply to child objects."
You didn't say if you wanted it checked or unchecked. I'm assuming
you mean "checked" but I wanted to make sure.
I just had another thought: doesn't XP Home force all network access
to authenticate as Guest? And isn't Guest NOT a member of Everyone?
If this is true, does your method involve me authenticating as a real
user, or something other than Guest? Or can I completely ignore who I
authenticate as, and just concentrate on getting the NTFS security
permissions correct?
|
Clarification of Answer by
deadlychiapet-ga
on
25 Oct 2002 12:24 PDT
My mistake, the checkbox needs to be checked. (my unreliable computer
crashed while typing that out, I must have missed that the 2nd time
around).
You're right, by default XP does force network access to authenticate
as guest. However, Guest does belong to the Everyone group, so there
should be no problem.
"What are "Guest" and "Everyone" all About?
The terms "Guest" and "Everyone" come from NT and 2000 days.
While they have some highly technical significance for expert
programmers, mommies and daddies can view them in a more user-friendly
way.
"Guest" is a user account for people who do not have individual
accounts. This user account does not require a password. By default,
the Guest account is disabled. In XP Home the Guest account is just
that: a limited account that a guest in your home can use to access
the computer for limited jobs, like some word processing, playing
games, or checking email.
"Everyone" is a group that includes all users, even anonymous users
and guests. Membership is controlled by the operating system. I
think that when you use Sharing or CACLS to change read/write/delete
privileges on a folder, then in effect you are changing them for
"everyone" on the computer. "
Simple File Sharing in XP Home
http://www.jimthompson.net/xphome/File_Sharing.htm
Sorry to have dragged this on, but hopefully you'll be all set now =)
Deadlychiapet-ga
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Request for Answer Clarification by
tcordes-ga
on
26 Oct 2002 09:23 PDT
Alright, we're halfway there! I can get into C:\Windows and Program
Files now but the real users' folders in Documents and Settings still
come up as blank or access denied. And if I manually type in
\\themachine\c\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents, I always
get a "access denied" alert.
As per my original question, it is critical that I have access to all
Documents and Settings subfolders. Actually, the C:\Windows and
Program Files are just gravy! It's the D&S that's most important for
me.
But at least we're getting somewhere. Please let me know what I have
to do to make D&S work.
Thanks!
|
Clarification of Answer by
deadlychiapet-ga
on
26 Oct 2002 12:38 PDT
Hmm...okay.
Lets try this. Go back into safe mode and navigate to one of your
users folders in Explorer. Right click, click properties, and click
the security tab. If you click on Everyone, you should see all the
checkboxes under Allow (except the last one) below checked off and
greyed out. None of the boxes under Deny should be checked.
If you find that some of these checkboxes aren't checked when they
should be, first check to make sure you completed the steps in my
answer correctly. If that doesn't work you can try setting up the
Everyone entry for one of the users' folder's and see if that works.
If not, well, we'll cross that bridge when we get there =)
Please let me know if this helps.
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Request for Answer Clarification by
tcordes-ga
on
27 Oct 2002 11:00 PST
OK, we're even farther still now. I checked what you said on the D&S
folder but there weren't any DENY checkmarks. But it did seem that
the proper ALLOW checkmarks were not there either. It appeared as
though permissions were not being inherited by the D&S folders. So I
repeated your steps on the D&S folder itself. NOW I can access *most*
of the users' D&S folders. However, it will not allow me to access
(it appears) users that had chosen the "make my documents private"
option on their account. Or maybe it is users who have Administrator
priveleges. I can't tell exactly which one.
I checked their folders and everything underneath their name (ie.
deeper than C:\D&S\name) was not inheriting the permission changes.
When I went into the security tab it would say I (Administrator) did
not own the file and that I could choose to take ownership.
So here is yet another stumbling block to sharing the whole drive in
an easy way. What is the easiest way around this one?
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Clarification of Answer by
deadlychiapet-ga
on
28 Oct 2002 13:33 PST
Hi again,
Lets go through some screenshots of what your settings should look
like. We'll start with the Documents and Settings folder. Your
Advanced Security Settings dialog should look like the one here:
http://www.lucidmatrix.com/uploads/pic1.jpg . The Everyone entry
should have it's Permission set to Full Control, it should be
inherited from C:\, and it should apply to This folder, subfolders,
and files. Make sure you have that last apply to column correct as it
could be what's causing the problem. When you bring up the dialog the
first checkbox should be already checked. If it's not, do so. As well,
try clicking the second checkbox. It might solve the problem. When
you're done click okay and then Yes for the dialog that pops up. If
that fixes it, great! If not, lets continue on.
Navigate to one of your users folders inside Documents and Settings.
Lets try Administrator as an example, although the properties sheet
for all your users should look the same. Click on Everyone and you
should see all the checkboxes below greyed out, just like in this
screenshot: http://www.lucidmatrix.com/uploads/pic2.jpg. If you click
on advanced, it should look exactly the same as in the first
screenshot for Documents and Settings. As far as the Everyone entry is
concerned, it should be the same in all the folders on your C drive.
If something's different then you'll need to go back up to the
Documents and Settings folder and make sure that all of the settings
are set to what's shown in the screenshot.
Unfortunately at this point I can't think of anything else that could
have gone wrong. If your settings are the same as the ones shown above
they should work, but for some inexplicable reason they don't. I know
this doesn't fully answer your original question, which is why if it
doesn't work after this you can feel free to reject this answer and
ask for a refund/repost. Or, if you'd like I can contact the editors
and ask to have my answer pulled so you don't pay for it.
Thanks.
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Request for Answer Clarification by
tcordes-ga
on
28 Oct 2002 19:02 PST
I was going to go through your last reply point-by-point, but I think
I'll try a different tack.
1. Re: Your first paragraph: your pic1.jpg is identical to what mine
looks like now. BUT, it wasn't a few days back. The problem I think
is that we weren't aware that the D&S folder by default does not have
the "inherit from parent" checkbox checked. This is a result of
simple file sharing in XP and appears unchecked by default on Home and
Pro. So that is why changes to C: weren't propagating into D&S. So
any solution requires special attention to the D&S folder, either by
turning on inheritance or by repeating all changes to C: to D&S.
2. I found out the reason even after #1 is fixed that I cannot access
one particular user's subfolders of D&S\username (from an MS-guru
friend). It did have to do with that user being the only one to
select the "make my documents private" button in the Sharing tab of My
Documents Properties. That changes the ACL's to only allow that user
in and is stopping all propagation of ACL inheritance into that
folder. I'm used to UN*X and this seems like very weird behaviour to
me: the equivalent of root not being able to change a file's
permissions. But my friend says that is how NTFS ACL's work. So to
solve problem #2 one would have to never use the "make this folder
private" option, OR have the user himself give permissions to
Everyone. Neither solution is viable for what my end goal is.
Bottom line: through the course of all this you have helped me reach
my stated goal to as good a degree as it seems is possible. It would
appear there is no foolproof way to ensure easy, complete and
guaranteed future access to the entire drive in a simple manner using
XP Home. Simple file sharing puts too many weird "gotchas" in our
way.
So even though all I've done is confirm my ideas will require XP Pro,
at least I have confirmed it -- and figured out exactly why.
I welcome any additional comments. I'll rate the answer and it is OK
as far as payment is concerned. Thank you for your help.
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Clarification of Answer by
deadlychiapet-ga
on
28 Oct 2002 21:04 PST
I did a bit of a test and it turns out that when a user clicks the
"Make my documents private" button it deletes any permissions on that
folder, and any subfolders, and files underneath it and replaces it
with permissions for that user alone and System. The button also stops
permissions from being inherited from their parent. Since there's no
way to turn off simplified sharing in XP Home there's no way from
stopping the user from just clicking the checkbox again and blocking
out your access to the folders. I'd have to agree with you in that XP
Pro (or even 2k) would be the best solution. XP Home is just missing
too many features (Group policy editor, etc) or has watered down
versions of them which just don't work well in situations such as
this.
Deadlychiapet-ga
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