Hello curious_thomas
Perhaps we should go with one of the most famous 'redemption' myths of
all and 'yes' it is Greek
It is the story of Hercules. It fills all of the criteria you have
listed in your question. It is not "something like," it is "exactly
like" what you are looking for.
Hercules was the offspring of a mating between Zeus and a mortal
woman. (that is a whole story in its own right)
1 - Good person turned into bad person by external or internal forces
When Hercules became a man he married a beautiful queen, and they had
three children. They were a happy pair and quite popular in all of
ancient Greece.
But, be that as it may, we all have somebody who doesn't like us for
some reason. In this case it was the goddess Hera. Hera could not
stand to see Hercules happy. She saw him as a bastard creation between
her husband and a mortal woman, so she cursed Hercules that he would
not know good from evil. Hercules would not know how to live his
life.
2 - Bad person causes death/destruction/mayhem
Under the effects of this curse, Hercules committed an evil act. Hera
was so happy that the rightous Hercules had performed this evil, she
decided to torment him even more. Hera lifted the curse so Hercules
would know what he had done. ( the evil act is described below )
3 - Bad person resists being killed/vanquished
Hercules could not stand what he had done and wept uncontrollably
because of it. He even lost his will to live and desired to die. He
wondered the countryside in a daze.
But Hercules still had strength and decided he could no longer live
this way. So instead of doing himself in or allowing circumstances to
do it for him, he decided to find an answer at the Oracle of Delphi
where Apollo could give an answer to the problem.
When Hercules reached temple at Delphi he was unkempt and dirty.
Pythia refused to supply an oracle because of that. I his anger at
being refused, he stole the sacred tripod of Pythia and planned to
build another temple to house it.
When Apollo heard about what happened, he became angry and hunted
Hercules until he found him in the Peloponnese. Apollo attacked
Hercules with the intent to kill him and gain back the tripod. It
turned out that Apollo could not kill Hercules and Hercules could not
kill apollo. They fought for three days and if the god Zeus had not
intervenedm the battle would have lasted for eternity.
4 - Bad person finds redemption by someone understanding why they
turned bad to begin with, and using that understanding to change the
bad person's character
The compromise given by Zeus was to allow Hercules to get his hearing
from the oracle and in turn, Hercules would return the holy tripod.
Both combatants agreed.
Zeus, being Hercule's father was aware of the actions Hera had taken
in Hercule's youth and he knew why Hercules had performed the evil
acts he had. Though the concept of 'love' was not really a part of
Greek myth when dealing with the offspring of divine and mortal
unions, Zeus thought Hercules at least deserved a chance.
The oracle priestess Pythia told Hercules that there was only one way
that his sin could be forgiven she said, "Go to your uncle Euristhea
King of the Mycenaeans and perform twelve tasks that he asks of you,
then your sin will be forgiven."
When Hercules arrived at his uncle's palace, the uncle, King
Euristhea, thought Hercules had come to take his kingdom from him.
Euristhea gave Hercules twelve tasks that he thought were dangerous,
and hoped Hercules would die in the attempt and the kingdom would be
safe.
5 - Bad person returns to being good
To cut a long story short, since fully covering each of the twelve
feats of Hercules would entail long discourses of their own, I have
outlined them below. Within twelve years, Hercules completed the
assigned tasks, his sin was forgiven and he remarried and had a happy
life.
_________________
The cast of players in the above story:
1 - Hercules - demigod - son of Zeus and a mortal woman ( Alkemene,
wife of Amphitrionas and the two of them raised Hercules.
2 - Zeus - (king of the gods and husband of Hera )
3 - Pythia - ( priestess of Apollo at Delphi - all the Delphic
priestesses carried the same name)
4 - Apollo - ( for this story, the god of Delphi and opponent of
Hercules)
5 - King Euristhea of Mycenaea - (assigned the twelve tasks )
_________________
The crime Hercules committed was the murder of his wife, Megara, and
their three children.
______________________
The twelve task assigned were:
1 - Hercules' first labor was to kill the menacing Nemean Lion;
Hercules strangled the creature and carried it back to Mycenae.
2 - The second task was to overcome the nine-headed snake known as the
Hydra; Hercules' cousin Ioloas helped him out by burning the stumps of
the heads after Hercules cut off the heads; since the ninth head was
immortal, Hercules buried it deep in the earth.
3 - Next he had to find the golden-horned stag and bring it back
alive. Hercules followed the stag around for a full year, capturing it
and taking it back alive.
4 - The fourth, was to capture a wild boar that terrorized Mycenae’s
people. Hercules chased the boar up a mountain and when the boar
became trapped in the snow, he subdued it.
5 - The fifth task Augean stables, where thousands of cattle were
housed, in a single day. Hercules, though a hero, did things as
easily as he could. He diverted two rivers so that they would flow
into the Augean stables and wash them out.
6 - The sixth labor was to destroy the man-eating Stymphalian birds.
Hercules used a rattle to drive them out of their hiding places and
shot them with poison-tipped arrows.
7 - Next, Hercules to capture a savage Cretean bull. Hercules
wrestled it to submission and took it back to King Eurystheus.
8 - He then to capture the four man-eating mares of Thrace. Hercules
threw the evil master of the mares to them. The horses than became
very tame and Hercules safely led them back to Mycenae.
9 - Hercules' ninth labor was to obtain the girdle of the fierce
Amazon warrior queen, Hippolyta. Hippolyta willingly gave her girdle
to Hercules, but Juno convinced the Amazons that Hercules was trying
to take their queen from them, so Hercules fought them off and
returned to Mycenae with the girdle.
10 - The tenth labor was to capture the cattle of the monster, Geryon.
Hercules killed Geryon, claimed the cattle, and took them back to the
king.
11 - The eleventh task was to get the golden-apples of the Hesperides.
Hercules enlisted the aid of Atlas. Hercules told Atlas that if he
would get the apples for him, he (Hercules) would hold the heavens for
him; when Atlas returned from his task, Hercules tricked him into
taking back the heavens.
12 - The final labor of Hercules was to bring the three-headed
watchdog of the underworld, Cerberus, to the surface and do it without
using any weapons. Hercules seized two of Cerberus’ heads and the dog
gave in. Hercules took the dog to his master, who then ordered him to
take it back. Finally, after twelve years and twelve tasks, Hercules
was redeemed.
________________________
Additional players in the twelve tasks:
1 - Nemean lion - This huge beast was the son of the monsters Typhon
(of the hundred heads) and Echidna (half maiden - half serpent), and
brother of the Theban Sphinx.
2 - Hydra - Another offspring of Typhon and Echidna. ( talk about your
disfunctional families) She had the body of a serpent and many heads
(the number of heads varies acording to the teller of the story but
generally nine is accepted as standard), of which one could never be
harmed by any weapon, and if any of the other heads were severed
another would grow in its place (and in in some versions two would
grow).
3 - Hippolyta - Queen of the Amazons. The Amazons were a warrior race
of women who were descended of Ares, the god of war.
4 - Geryon - A triple-bodied, winged giant who dwelt on the island of
Erythea in the far west. He owned a herd of cattle which was guarded
by the two-headed dog Orthrus.
5 - Hesperides - Hesperides are nymphs who live in a beautiful garden
at the western extreme of the Mediterranean, near Mt. Atlas. They are
sometimes considered daughters of Atlas.
6 - Atlas - The Titan who holds the heavens (or the world) on his
shoulders.
7 - Cerberus - In Greek mythology, the three-headed watchdog who
guards the entrance to the lower world. Another one of Typhon and
Echidna's brood.
___________________________
On his funeral pyre, the dying Hercules ascended to Olympus, where he
was granted immortality and lived among the gods.
_______________________
Search - Google
Terms - ancient redemption myth, greek redemption myth, hercules,
labors of hercules
websites used in researching:
"Hercules Myth of the Month" - a rather 'light' website dealing with
ancient myth in a tongue in cheek manner. Good for some story
'color.'
( http://www.thanasis.com/mmay99.htm )
"The Purpose of this Study of the hercules Myth" - a rather "new age"
semi-religious approach to the meaning of the myth of Hercules.
Another source good for some story 'color.'
( http://www.steliart.com/purpose_of_this_study_of_the_her.htm )
"Reworking of Hercules myth has Hellenes hopping mad: 1/2/98" - From
Baker Books - about the 'Disney' approach to the myth of Hercules.
The Greeks "should" be mad.
( http://www.s-t.com/daily/01-98/01-02-98/b06ae058.htm )
"Mythography | The Greek Hero Herakles in Myth and Art" - From
Mythography website
( http://www.loggia.com/myth/herakles.html )
Plus a couple of books about ancient myth on my bookshelf.
"Ancient Myths" - by Norma Lorre Goodrich
"Ingri and Edgar Parin D'Aulaire's Book of Greek Myths" - by Ingri
D'Aulaire and Edgar P. D'Aulaire
If you would like any clarifications before you rate the answer,
please ask.
Cheers
digsalot |
Clarification of Answer by
digsalot-ga
on
29 Oct 2002 05:08 PST
Dear curious - As I went back through this after I posted it, I was
shocked at the number of typos. It is my own fault for answering late
at night after a long day. It's not really an excuse, merely a
recognition of the errors - and possibly a hint it is time to get new
glasses. I hope it did not break up the story too much for you.
Cheers
digs.
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
curious_thomas-ga
on
29 Oct 2002 07:16 PST
Good Morning Digs...
Thank you for your thorough answer, and don't worry about the typos.
My clarification centers on Pythia and her interaction with Hercules.
Specifically, my 4th point stated:
4 - Bad person finds redemption by someone understanding why they
turned bad to begin with, and using that understanding to change the
bad person's character
You mention in your answer that Pythia told Hercules how his sin would
be forgiven, but you did not mention whether or not she explained to
Hercules about the spell. Some more detail here would be relevant to
my needs.
More importantly, however, is my second point:
2 - Bad person causes death/destruction/mayhem
In your answer, you state that Hercules murdered his wife and children
(grisly...), but then was awake from the curse, recognized what he'd
done, and wondered the countryside. ***What I was looking for was an
instance where, in this case, Hercules continued to commit murder
(remained unaware of the curse AND unrepentant) until Pythias
enlightened him.
I realize this isn't how the Hercules myth went... it is close enough
that I might be able to use it, but ongoing "death/destruction/mayhem"
until enlightenment is actually a key theme for what I seek.
Any other myths you see as relevant?
|
Clarification of Answer by
digsalot-ga
on
29 Oct 2002 15:42 PST
Hi again
Actually, in part 4, I was not using Pythias as "someone understanding
why they turned bad to begin with," I was using Zeus as the one who
knew the reason and was therefor the one who intervened. Pythias was
part of the process of redemption only after Zeus had forced an end
to the battle and enforced his compromise.
The reason Zeus was the one who intervened, was due to the history
between Hera and Hercules from the time before the curse. The curse
was only the last of a line of actions taken by Hera against Hercules.
They had begun while Hercules was still an infant.
One night when everyone was sleeping Hera sent two serpents to kill
the child Hercules. Hercules and his brother were both sleeping as
the two poisonous snakes entered the room to kill him. Hera's hatred
of Hercules was so great she had forgotten the fact that Hercules was
only eight months old.
As the snakes entered the room, Hercules brother, Iphicles, woke up
and began to cry uncontrollably. Hercules then woke and seeing the
serpents he waited for them. When the snakes came by his crib he
grabbed them both and strangled them.
All of Greece then heard of this child that slew the snakes of Hera
and of course Zeus heard as well in the process. The god was well
aware of the relationship between his wife and his son. It was Zeus
who used that information to begin the change in his son's (the bad
person's) character.
________________-
Whether Hercules was ever informed that he had acted under a curse
from Hera is purely conjecture. However, as the myth has been studied
over the centuries, the overwhelming consensus is that he was. The
reason being is that it fits with the character of Hera herself to
have done so at the time she lifted the curse. Hera's complete hatred
of Hercules was so intense that she would do anything to hurt him.
And her letting him know that he was being manipulated into performing
his 'evil' acts would have been just the kind of thing her personality
demanded. It would have been an additional blow to his sense of
rightousness upon realizing he was nothing more than a 'toy' to the
goddess.
Hercules sense of "rightousness" was the anchor of his life. There is
an additional story about Hercules which goes: - - -"One day Hercules
went for a walk and came upon a path which split in two, one path went
to the right and the other to the left. One path was wide and
beautiful in the entrance but then quickly became thinner leading to a
horrid place, the other was thin but then became wide and led into a
beautiful paradise. Hercules sat down in front of the two paths
placing his head between his hands thinking of what he would do in his
life.
Upon lifting his head Hercules saw two beautiful women. One stood
closer to Hercules and was dressed beautiful and had an arrogance
about her. The other women stood further back and wore a poor outfit
yet from her face shun humility and respect.
The woman who was adorned with arrogance spoke first and said,
"Hercules you are the strongest man in the world take what you will in
this world and live a life full of pleasure." Hercules then asked the
woman, "What is your name?". The woman then replied, "My name is
happiness, yet my enemies call me evil."
Hercules then turned to the other woman, and she spoke to him saying,
"The gods gave you strength so that you can help the weak, to punish
those who do evil deeds, and to use your strength for the good of
mankind. Only in this matter will you find true happiness and mankind
will respect you." Hercules then asked the woman, "What is your
name?". To which the woman replied, "My name is Virtue, and I only
have friends with my name not enemies."
Hercules then bowed his head down once again between his hands and
began to think. As he moved his hands away from his face he could see
"Virtue" go down the thin path, and the woman who called herself
"Happiness" go down the wide path. The women soon vanished beyond the
site of Hercules.
Hercules got up and finally decided what he would do. He followed the
path of Virtue. His soul filled with true happiness as he had made
the right choice. The gods looked fondly upon Hercules and his
decision. Hercules had taken the path that would make him a hero."
So as should be evident from that story, Hera letting Hercules know
that he was manipulated would have been a disasterous blow to his
sense of worth. Once again, it fits with her profile.
___________
As for part 2 - The evidence is there that "mayhem" did continue even
after the lifting of the curse. That mayhem being evidenced by his
insanity, the condition in which he arrived at Delphi, and of course
his final evil deed which was the theft of the holy tripod. An
expansion of this evidence would answer your "key" for continued
mayhem.
______
As far as other myths relating to the same criteria, there are some
from other cultures such as Hindu, Mesopotamian, Egypt, etc. While
they all come close, they all are missing at least one of the criteria
you need.
I also realize that you may want even more detailed information about
this particular myth and that detail can be provided. I look forward
to more clarification requests as those will give me the direction you
want the research to follow. There are three myths or stories which
have influenced the way we live more than any other. They are the
stories of Hercules, the Buddha, and the Christ. However Hercules is
the only one of these which meets all your needs.
If you are writing a paper about this subject, keep asking. It is
only by knowing your specific needs that I can close in on what you
are looking for. The more information you give me, the more we can
narrow things down.
cheers
digs
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
curious_thomas-ga
on
29 Oct 2002 17:24 PST
Hello Digs...
Once again, I am impressed at your knowledge in this area. Thank you
again for the additional details. They do help me feel a bit better
about the "fit" of the Hercules myth for my needs, but it's not quite
resonating in the manner that I had hoped. As you suggested, let me
share with you the details so you can help me better.
I am searching for a myth as metaphor for a new class of cancer
treatment:
- Good person: healthy cell
- Bad person: cancer cell, mayhem: tumor
- Bad person resists being killed: poor response to traditional
chemotherapy
- Bad person finds redemption and change in character: new therapy
that doesn't kill, but get's cancer cell to act more like a healthy
cell
- Bad person returns to being good: cancer cells act like healthy
cells, tumor regresses
With this application in mind, the vehicle of redemption and change is
key, as it maps to the therapy. Hopefully this helps... looking
forward to the next round. Thanks in advance.
|
Clarification of Answer by
digsalot-ga
on
30 Oct 2002 04:15 PST
Ok - I am going to have to "reach" for this somewhat as I'm not a
medical expert. In fact my medical knowledge stops with the fact I
know where to sign the credit card invoice after a visit to the Dr.
(one of the many without insurance who pays up front)
I am going to run something down here just to see if I understand your
last clarification request properly. and please don't forget it is
from a non-medical layman's point of view who is liable to get the
proper name of body parts wrong and who's knowledge of body chemistry
is limited to drink a glass of beer, feel good.
1 - Good person - healthy cell - The infant Hercules could be an
analogy of a young, just divided cell with all its immune defenses in
place, its genetic material all in order, and ready for whatever is
thrown at it. Almost immediately it is subject to attack from
viruses, bacteria, and whatever carcinogens may be floating around as
represented by Hera's snakes. The crying of Hercules brother could
possibly be compared to enzymes and other signals from neighboring
cells that carcinogens are in the area.
2 - Bad person: cancer cell, mayhem: tumor - The cell continues on
its way with every intent of doing those things which all good cells
do and has no intention of doing otherwise. Just as Hercules, it
follows a path of virtue. But then, something happens it has no
control over or knowledge of. Hera's curse. Just as Hercules didn't
realize when the curse was imposed, the cell doesn't realize it has
been effected by an outside source such as a bit of radiation or a
weakening of the immune systeml. The cell continues on functioning
not knowing a change has taken place and that its genetic programming
has been changed to that of a killer. It happily divides and
re-divides in an uncontrollable manner without ever knowing it is
having a deadly effect on the cells around it. It is in essence
destroying its immediate family, just as Hercules did.
3 - Bad person resists being killed: poor response to traditional
chemotherapy - The first onslaught of chemotherapy drugs lift the
curse and the cell is aware (in whatever way cells are aware) that
something has changed. It is also aware that what it was doing was
seriously out of the ordinary, but that awareness merely throws the
cell into a state of mindlessness and even though things have changed,
it still continues to divide and re-divide without thought or reason.
Just as Hercules continued to live without reason as he wandered the
fields in a state of madness. However, the chemo treatment has reach
the stage where progress should be made and the promise of a cure is
in sight. Hercules has just reached the temple at Delphi and the
Pythia, and the end of his problem is in sight. - - - - However, just
as Hercules appearance causes Pythia to turn away, and visiting Pythia
is standard practice for receiving help, so too, does something in the
cell cause the standard medications to turn away. - - - - Hercules
steals the tripod and continues on his way in madness, ignoring the
destruction he has caused at the Delphi temple. The cell counteracts
the medication and continues on its way, ignoring the fact it leaving
destruction and havoc behind it. - - - - The physicial then decides to
increase the dosage or try a stronger medicine, perhaps the strongest
that has been approved. The physician reaches for the ultimate means
at his/her disposal. Pythia calls in the god Apollo. - - - - Apollo
and Hercules meet. The errant cell and the stronger medications meet.
The battle is on. But even against the power of a god or against the
strength of a newer medicine, both Hercules and the cell hold out.
Though they both are still deadly and at the time need to be
destroyed, Hercules and the cell fight on with all the strength of any
living thing battling for its own survival. - - - Hercules and Apollo
reach a stalemate, the battle could continue for eternity with no
progress being made on either side. The cell and the new medication
reach a stalemate and the battle could rage on for the rest of the
patient's life with no progress being made either by the cell or the
medication.
4 - Bad person finds redemption and change in character: new therapy
that doesn't kill, but get's cancer cell to act more like a healthy
cell. - - - Now, here is where I'm going to have to "reach" the
farthest as I don't know what the new treatment is you are speaking
of. Perhaps it is something that restores the genetic properties of
the cell itself? Perhaps it is even a multi-stage process, as in the
Labors of Hercules. - - - Just as Zeus had to enforce a compromise on
Hercules and Apollo, the physician may have to do the same just to
hold things where they are without getting any worse. Neither
Hercules or the patient are cured at this point, but a holding pattern
has been reached, the tumor is still there, perhaps not growing as
fast, but vertainly not in remission. This compromise buys time.
Hercules can re-approach Pythia and the physician can review and make
new assesments of the current treatment. - - - - Pythia advises
Hercules to visit the king of Mycenae to find out what steps must be
taken. At this time perhaps the physician advises the patient to see
another specialist. Perhaps you are the specialist and perhaps you
have something that might work. I use the word "might" for the simple
reason there is no guarantee, just as there was no guarantee Hercules
would be successful in his labors. However, if the process is
followed, there is a chance. - - - Hercules went on to finish his
assigned tasks and was healed of his madness. The new treatment may
very well likely finish its task and the genetic structure of the cell
heal to stop its endless reproduction.
Hercules went on to live a happy life, and the patient may well do the
same.
I don't even know if I've come close to what you are looking for, but
I find the transformation of ancient myth into an exercise in oncology
one of the more fascinating things this retired archaeologist has
attempted.
If I can be of further help ( or source of confusion) please ask.
Cheers
digs
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
curious_thomas-ga
on
30 Oct 2002 13:56 PST
Hi Digs...
For a layman, you're doing quite well with the biology. Your
metaphors are generally sound (thank you again for your thorough
reply), but there is one aspect that is still a reach:
In items 3 and 4, there is a gap in time between Hera lifting the
curse and Hercules returning to "homeostasis":
Cursed
Guilt-Driven Madness
Redemption Act
"Healthy" Member of Society
It would be better if the myth were:
Cursed
"Healthy" Member of Society
A cleaner transition maps better to the action of a single novel
therapeutic. In particular, the complex transition in the case of
Hercules has many vehicles for the transition:
Hera lifting the curse
Zeus intervening in the fight with Apollo to allow Hercules access to
the oracle
Pythia guiding Hercules towards his pennance
Euristhea providing the tasks of Hercules' pennance
This complicates my selection of one of them to be the metaphor for
the novel therapeutic. The current front-runner is Pythia, but the
story of the transition remains complex, perhaps too so for me to use.
Pythia may be my best bet, but given this detail, are there any other
myths that come to mind (Greek or not)? Obscurity of the myth is
irrelevant...
Thanks!
- Thomas
|
Clarification of Answer by
digsalot-ga
on
30 Oct 2002 15:30 PST
This is getting more interesting as it evolves. With your indulgence,
give me a day or two to do some deeper digging. Even though Hercules
is the 'biggie,' there are probably other lesser known myths that I
have never heard of which might do the job. I'm beginning to approach
this as an archaeological project while you are approaching it as a
medical one. What a marriage of disciplines this is turning out to
be. Who knows, we may be founders of a whole new sub-discipline of
research yet? Think up a good name. Archaeotherapy? Archaeoncology?
Oncoarchaeology?
cheers
digs
|
Request for Answer Clarification by
curious_thomas-ga
on
30 Oct 2002 16:17 PST
Oncomythology... :) Happy hunting...
- Thomas
|
Clarification of Answer by
digsalot-ga
on
30 Oct 2002 21:06 PST
... the elipsis is just to clear the clarification request. When we
use the clarification field to exchange a simple message rather than
using the comments section, it notifies you, me, GA, the state,
nation, world, galaxy, universe and beyond - - possible even Olympus
itself. :)
|
Clarification of Answer by
digsalot-ga
on
01 Nov 2002 14:44 PST
Have spent the last two days reading myths. Just finished the Maya
tale of the "Rabbit and the Sandel." So far, all I'm finding is why
the Hercules story is one of the "Big Three" influencing modern
society along with those of Buddha and Jesus. I have looked at Hindu,
Animist, Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Mesopotamian, mesoAmerican, and
others. I have delved into the stories of my own denomination of Shin
Buddhism(not really a good source of 'redemption' literature as our
philosophies aim for a different result based on "oneness" rather than
dualities) and am now diving into ancient China.
I am still finding the Hercules story to be the closest fit. I am
also finding several different interpretations and readings of the
philosophies of the Hercules myth as it has been picked apart and
reassembled nearly as much as have been the underlying philosophies of
other "isms." One interpretation comes close to what you are seeking
has Hercules redemption beginning with his 'return' to Pythia.
This 'return' represents a weak chink and an open spot in the Hercules
myth which may be exploited. There is no evidence in any of the
translations that he actually returned to Delphi after the
intervention by Zeus. The compromise was that Hercules had to return
the tripod. It does not say whether he returned to Delphi to do so or
whether Zeus simply took possession of the tripod at the time or
whether Hercules returned to Delphi for his 'oracle' or whether Pythia
was miraculously brought to him. Both possibilities have been
speculated on. There is a 'new age' group which reads much of the
miraculous into the Hercules legend, and it may be that their approach
may be a little closer to the ancients than examining the story from a
modern western approach is.
If we read the story in that light, then Hercules redemption begins
with his second encounter with Pythia (wherever that encounter took
place) rather than with the intervention of Zeus. Everything from the
the time Hera initiated her curse to the time Pythia gave her final
reading is looked at as the "time of madness" for Hercules. Even
though the curse was lifted by Hera and Hercules was made aware of his
actions, everything that happened after, his wanderings, his attack on
the Delphi temple, and his willingness to battle with a god, were
still residual infuences of the curse (his period of mayhem).
By this kind of reading, Pythia could be the single novel therapeutic,
with the follow-up visit to the king and the subsequent "labors"
representing the "changes in Hercules" as well as the "changes in the
cell" returning it to ""homeostasis."
The material covered by the Herculean legend is almost rich enough to
be considered an ancient 'scripture' with all the attendent
interpretations, selective reading, and twists of meaning, given any
other scripture by its students and followers. I highly doubt inthe
interpreters of most any scripture who are alive today have any more
idea of what was originaly meant than the man in the moon. If they
did, There wouldn't be the problem of various denominations splitting
up most all of the world's faiths, with each claiming to be the sole
holders of the absolute truth.
I'm going to keep reading myths, but I seriously doubt if I will find
one that contains the flexibility of the Hercules story. It is that
very flexibility and the story's ability to have a wide variety of
meanings read into it that you could "force fit" it to your needs and
probably be as accurate as any other interpretation.
|
Clarification of Answer by
digsalot-ga
on
07 Nov 2002 11:21 PST
Still looking.
|
Clarification of Answer by
digsalot-ga
on
13 Nov 2002 23:16 PST
I have learned more about ancient myth than I ever dreamed even
existed. I can still find nothing better than the Hercules story. I
have had a few come close, but instead of being 'redemption' stories,
they were 'transformation' stories. By that I mean such things as a
mortal becoming a god or a god losing immortality, I have learned
about the wars between the Titans and the Gods, between good and evil
Hindu divinities, Buddha stories I never knew existed, tales from
mesoAmerica, Australian Dreamtime, native North American legends,
Polynesia, the Arctic, Thor, Odin, Vahalla, the Western fields, Hades,
the Far Shore, etc, etc, etc,
Good grief - For this education, I should be paying you instead of the
other way around.
The fact is, I have no other way to go except for the Hercules story.
Whether I've talked myself into it or nothing else exists, I've pretty
much wrung the ancient world dry.
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Clarification of Answer by
digsalot-ga
on
13 Nov 2002 23:19 PST
Let me know which way to go from here. Between us, I think we can
tweak Hercules a little.
LOL, tweaking Hercules, now there's a thought that sends chills down
my spine.
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