Google Answers Logo
View Question
 
Q: Entry level song composition with yamaha electric piano ( Answered,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Entry level song composition with yamaha electric piano
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Music
Asked by: charidea-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 31 Oct 2002 07:17 PST
Expires: 30 Nov 2002 07:17 PST
Question ID: 94174
I have a ten yr old eager to compose and record his piano compositions
with his voice-over singing. Not sure I'm on the right track, but I
ordered a JVC stereo cassette deck with a mic input to connect with
the RCA outs from the piano. Can I do voice over music on this?
(sound-on-sound?) Audio King says yes, but I think not. People tell me
to use a computer ( I could connect a mac i-book to the yamaha's
computer out) and I'm willing to do this BUT (for  parenting reasons)
I'm trying to rely LESS on "computers for everything" and wonder if
there is a solution SHORT OF computer software. Maybe not. Also if I
DO go with a computer (mac is what i have) which software is best?
Answer  
Subject: Re: Entry level song composition with yamaha electric piano
Answered By: clouseau-ga on 31 Oct 2002 07:58 PST
 
Hello charidea,

And thank you for your question.

You are correct to suspect ANY stereo cassette deck for your stated
purpose. Let me explain why.

The process you are trying to accomplish is called multitracking. One
of the key elements is to have the ability to listen back to what has
already been recorded while adding to it and having all of the
elements in sync.

A stereo cassette deck will usually record both tracks at once as it
does not have the ability to select the record or playback function
separately for each track.

And even though you might think that two tracks will be sufficient for
only piano and voice, you will find that there is a great need for
more. Good recording process states that you should record each of the
basic tracks at the proper level and without effects as effects can be
added in the mixdown process. Mixdown is where all recorded elements
are combined down into 2 tracks for stereo. Once added to a track,
effects can not be removed as they become "embedded" in the recording.
When I speak of effects, I am referring to reverb, echo, digital dely,
pitch doubling and a multitude of other embellishments that can be
added in the mixdown process.

Since we wish to retain the unenhanced signals as long as possible, we
need as many tracks available as possible. You may want your piano in
stereo (most likely) and then add lead vocals, perhaps background
vocals, a drum track - the possibilities are endless.

The modern recording process is digital and can use litearlly hundreds
of tracks, but the industry evolved starting in the early sixties with
4 track, then 8, 16 and 24 which was the standard until digital became
an affordable reality in the late 80's. The Beatle's Sergeant Pepper,
for example, was recorded on 2 four track machines and bounced tracks
back and forth between them. With proper technique, you can achieve 16
-24 tracks total when bouncing on a single 4 track machine. More if it
is digital.

That being said, a whole range of products have evolved for just the
purpose you describe and came about from the original "Porta Studio"
by TASCAM, the US arm of TEAC (Tokyo Electronics of America Corp).
These were 4 track devices using a standard cassette tape, but in a
unique 4 track way and they include a basic mixer as well. With one of
these and a standard cassette deck to mix down to stereo for a final
product, one could make a very good quality demo tape rather easily.
Bruce Springsteen even used one of these for an album release
(Nebraska, I believe, done in his hotel room). Many musicians carried
these with them as sketchpads to be used in hotel rooms when they felt
creative.

You don't note where you are located, but if you are near any major US
market there will be a music store that will carry a variety of these
for you to audition. Guitar Center has many stores across the country
and will carry all the major brands. In the New York area, Sam Ash
would be a good source. Or any of the multitude of Internet sources
such as www.musiciansfriend.com or www.sweetwater.com will sell these
devices and discount from the list price.

Since I personally have not used one in 8 or 10 years, I took a look
to see what was current and recommend a model or two for you.

I went to the Tascam website (www.tascam.com) as I know them to make
reliable, full featured units. You will find many others including
Fostex, however, Tascam's offerings will give us a good guide to the
current market.

They have several models of Portastudio available:

MF-P01 - 4 track $125 MSRP
The perfect Portastudio for musicians and novice recordists
• 4-track multitrack recorder
• Uses inexpensive standard cassette tapes
• Records one track at a time with classic warm analog sound
• Includes headphone output

The manual is available for these online, by the way, so you can see
just how they operate.

On the other extreme, they off the 788 Digital 8 Track Portastudio at
$1149 MSRP at http://www.tascam.com/products/portastudios/788/index.php

8-track, 24-bit hard disk recorder workstation 
• 250 virtual tracks for comps and alternate takes
• 7.5GB internal hard disk for nearly two hours of 8-track recording
• Built-in high quality digital effects: reverb, chorus, distortion,
multi-effects and much more
• Excellent audio quality: 24-bit uncompressed sonic fidelity, 24-bit
AD/DA converters
• Non-destructive editing: 999 levels of undo 
• 3-band EQ with true parametric mid • Versatile inputs/outputs and
flexible routing
• S/PDIF digital output for digital mixdown 
•.SCSI port for data archive and CD burning

And several models in between:

http://www.tascam.com/products/portastudios/porta02/index.php
Porta02 Ministudio $225

http://www.tascam.com/products/portastudios/414mkii/index.php
414MKII 4 Track MiniStudio $375

and http://www.tascam.com/products/portastudios/424mkiii/index.php
424 MKIII 4 TrackMinistudio $499

Read these pages to see the feature differences and view the demo
videos online.

I'm sure you will find these devices to be much better suited to the
task at hand and will allow you son to begin learning the basics of
the recording process.

If anything above requires clarification, please don't hesitate to
ask. And enjoy the creative recording process!

Best regards,

-=clouseau=-
Comments  
Subject: Re: Entry level song composition with yamaha electric piano
From: owain-ga on 31 Oct 2002 16:25 PST
 
You may be able to use the stereo cassette deck to record if you use a
mono microphone on one channel, and the other channel line (RCA) input
for the keyboard. Plugging a microphone into the 1/4" mic jack usually
disables the line input. Your son will have to play the keyboard and
sing simultaneously - building up the composition with multitracking
will not be possible. The recording will not be stereo, it will be
two-channel mono and may sound a little odd when played back.

The keyboard output should not be connected to the mic input of the
recorder. It is a higher level signal and will overload it.

The 'professional' way would be to use a mixer to combine the
microphone and the keyboard line output, adjust the volume, and send
it to the recorder. There is a selection at Radio Shack (if online,
select: Catalog Home - TV/Audio/Video - Pro Sound - Mixers.) 32-2005
would almost certainly do what you need, at $80.  A local music equipt
store may well have something cheaper.

Two more expensive, but possibly better value options might be: a band
style amp with a couple of microphone and line inputs - some of these
have built in echo effect - or some types of karaoke amp might be able
to mix in an external line source (ie the keyboard) and output the mix
to tape.

Owain

Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  


Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy