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Q: WW2 Veterans Preference's ( No Answer,   4 Comments )
Question  
Subject: WW2 Veterans Preference's
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: vide-ga
List Price: $200.00
Posted: 31 Oct 2002 09:58 PST
Expires: 06 Nov 2002 18:00 PST
Question ID: 94330
The Office of Personnel Management administrated benefits under U.S.C.
tile 5,only to declared war by congress  veterans. The VA adminstrates
benefits to all veterans under title 38. The VetGuide and Appendix A
on line make sure that you know there is a "BIG?" diference but it
does not mention what..  What were/are the OPM's preference and/or
service credits for ww2 veterans?
service credit's for WW2 veterans ?
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

The following answer was rejected by the asker (they received a refund for the question).
Subject: Re: WW2 Veterans Preference's
Answered By: justaskscott-ga on 04 Nov 2002 00:46 PST
 
The introduction to the VetGuide states:

"The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) administers entitlement to
veterans' preference in employment under title 5, United States Code,
and oversees other statutory employment requirements in titles 5 and
38. (Title 38 also governs veterans' entitlement to benefits
administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA).)

Both title 5 and title 38 use many of the same terms, but in different
ways. For example, service during a 'war' is used to determine
entitlement to veterans' preference and service credit under title 5.
OPM has always interpreted this to mean a war declared by Congress.
But title 38 defines 'period of war' to include many non-declared
wars, including Korea, Vietnam, and the Persian Gulf. Such conflicts
entitle a veteran to VA benefits under title 38, but not necessarily
to preference or service credit under title 5. Thus it is critically
important to use the correct definitions in determining eligibility
for specific rights and benefits in employment."

"VetGuide: Introduction"
U.S. Office of Personnel Management
http://www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vetguide.htm#1

Appendix A to the VetGuide then says that:

"In the absence of statutory definition for "war" and "campaign or
expedition," OPM considers to be "wars" only those armed conflicts for
which a declaration of war was issued by Congress.  The title 38,
U.S.C., definition of "period of war," which is used in determining
benefits administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs, includes
the Vietnam Era and other armed conflicts.  That title 38 definition
is NOT applicable for civil service purposes.

Thus the last 'war' for which active duty is qualifying for veterans'
preference is World War II.  The inclusive dates for World War II
service are December 7, 1941, through April 28, 1952."

"VetGuide: Appendix A: Wars, Campaigns and Expeditions of the Armed
Forces Since WW II Which Qualify for Veterans' Preference"
U.S. Office of Personnel Management
http://www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vgmedal2.htm

Based on that, I can see why you have the impression that there is a
big difference in the veterans' preference and service credit between
veterans of World War II and veterans of subsequent undeclared wars.

And indeed, there is some difference, but not as great as it first
appears.

Appendix A also contains a chart for "Campaigns and Expeditions Which
Qualify For Veterans' Preference", which includes many conflicts after
World War II.

So while World War II is the last "war" to qualify for veterans'
preference, conflicts that are not "wars" declared by Congress but
rather "campaigns" or "expeditions" may also qualify.

The difference is that, while all veterans who served during World War
II qualify for the veterans' preference, not all veterans of those
later conflicts do:

"Five points are added to the passing examination score or rating of a
veteran who served:

During a war; 
or 
During the period April 28, 1952 through July 1, 1955;
or 
For more than 180 consecutive days, other than for training, any part
of which occurred after January 31, 1955, and before October 15, 1976;
or 
In a campaign or expedition for which a campaign medal has been
authorized. Any Armed Forces Expeditionary medal or campaign badge,
including El Salvador, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Southwest Asia,
Somalia, and Haiti qualifies for preference.  ...
A campaign medal holder who originally enlisted after September 7,
1980, (or began active duty on or after October 14, 1982, and has not
previously completed 24 months of continuous active duty) must have
served continuously for 24 months or the full period called or ordered
to active duty. The 24-month service requirement does not apply to
10-point preference eligibles separated for disability incurred or
aggravated in the line of duty, or to veterans separated for hardship
or other reasons under 10 U.S.C. 1171 or 1173."

"VetGuide: Veterans' Preference in Appointments: Types of Preference"
U.S. Office of Personnel Management
http://www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vetguide.htm#2Types

So, there are no restrictions put on the preference for veterans who
served in a war, which in the case of WWII is defined as December 7,
1941, to April 28, 1952, or for the period immediately thereafter
until July 1, 1955.  But for many veterans from 1955 to 1976, a
preference is given only to those who served more than 180 consecutive
days.  And for some veterans who enlisted after 1980 and began active
duty after 1982, except for those separated for disability or other
hardship, the preference is given only to those who served
continuously for 24 months or the full period of active duty.

As for service credits, there appears to be almost no difference
between World War II veterans and most other veterans.  The VetGuide
sets forth these rules on leave accrual:

"For leave accrual, retirees receive credit only for: 

actual service during a war declared by Congress (includes World War
II covering the period December 7, 1941, to April 28, 1952) or while
participating in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge
is authorized;

or 

all active duty when retirement was based on a disability received as
a direct result of armed conflict or caused by an instrumentality of
war and incurred in the line of duty during a period of war as defined
in 38 U.S.C. 101(11). "Period of war" includes World War II, the
Korean conflict, Vietnam era, the Persian Gulf War, or the period
beginning on the date of any future declaration of war by the Congress
and ending on the date prescribed by Presidential proclamation or
concurrent resolution of the Congress."

"VetGuide: Service Credit: Service Credit for Leave Rate Accrual and
Retirement"
U.S. Office of Personnel Management
http://www.opm.gov/employ/html/vetguide.htm#Service Credit for Leave
Rate Accrual and

So actual service during any of the campaigns and expeditions listed
in the chart in Appendix A is treated the same as active service
during World War II, while disability during armed conflict while on
active duty during the two largest of those campaigns and expeditions
-- the Vietnam War and the Persian Gulf War -- is treated the same as
if it happened in World War II.  The difference is only for those on
active duty, but not actual service, who were disabled as a result of
other armed conflicts.  Presumably, only a relatively small number of
veterans miss out on service credit for this reason.

These rules are very technical and hard to follow, but basically, I
can sum my understanding in this manner (and please note, I'm doing
this as a researcher, not an expert on law or the military): (1) World
War II veterans are in the best situation with respect to veterans'
preference, though many other veterans are in the same position; (2)
World War II veterans are in the same position as most other veterans
with respect to service credit.

(Incidentally, I have checked other pages on the OPM web site that
mention the subject of wars declared by Congress.  I have not found
anything that conflicts with the VetGuide on the veterans' preference
or service credit.)

Please let me know if you need any clarification.

- justaskscott-ga


Search terms used on Google:

"declared by congress" site:www.opm.gov
declaration war site:www.opm.gov

Clarification of Answer by justaskscott-ga on 04 Nov 2002 09:12 PST
One correction for the links: the link to service credit information
in the VetGuide should be:

http://www.opm.gov/veterans/html/vetguide.htm#Service%20Credit%20for%20Leave%20Rate%20Accrual%20and

I should also mention that certain qualifications and limitations
apply to the veterans' preference, such as honorable and general
discharge, as explained at the beginning of the section on "Types of
Preference".

Request for Answer Clarification by vide-ga on 04 Nov 2002 11:12 PST
to preference or service credit under title 5. Thus it is critically
important to use the correct definitions in determining eligibility
for specific rights and benefits in employment."
 HI, justskscott,  My question put another way: What were the OPM
administrated benefits that applied  only to declared war veterans?
The VetGuide that you use as your answer was last updated in 2000. 
Title 5 sec 2108,ref in VetGuide, was updated  Jan 2 2001 (also
in2002) and it no longer just applies to ww2 veterans. I will not
accept your answer and I am withdrawing my question until I can
rephrase and so I don't continue to get the same no answer asnswer.  
thank you vide

Clarification of Answer by justaskscott-ga on 04 Nov 2002 11:21 PST
Rather than withdraw your question, would you allow me to look at
Title 5 Sec 2108, and then give you a supplemental answer?

I would like to give you the information you want; that's what these
answer clarifications are good for.

I hope that you will learn more by letting me clarify the answer,
rather than starting over again with someone who doesn't yet know the
topic.

I understand that you deserve the best possible answer, because you're
paying good money.  I would like to try to give you that answer.

Clarification of Answer by justaskscott-ga on 04 Nov 2002 11:50 PST
I have seen two copies of Title 5, Section 2108, with the text as of
01/02/01.  I assume that you are referring to this text.

The notes to both texts indicate that the last amendment was: "Pub. L.
105-339, Sec. 4(a), Oct. 31, 1998, 112 Stat. 3185".

"5 USC Sec. 2108" (01/02/01)
Office of the Law Revision Counsel: U.S. Code
http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t05t08+172+0++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28%285%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%282108%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20

"Laws: Cases and Codes : U.S. Code : Title 5 : Section 2108"
FindLaw
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=5&sec=2108

"Section 2108 - Notes"
FindLaw
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/5/parts/iii/subparts/a/chapters/21/sections/section_2108_notes.html

I have searched on the Library of Congress's legislative information
web site in the bill texts for the 107th Congress for the following
terms: 2108 veteran.  I did not find any bills containing this text.

Search form for bill texts from  107th Congress (2001-2002)
Thomas
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c107query.html

Perhaps there is a particular amendment or provision that you have
heard about and are concerned about.  If so, please let me know any
details you know about the amendment or provision, and I'd be happy to
research it for you.
Reason this answer was rejected by vide-ga:
The answer did not answer my question about OPM administored
benefits...I offerend $200 dollars because the answer would not be as
readng the VetGuide.  I request a full refund of $200
dollars......thank you    vide

Comments  
Subject: Re: WW2 Veterans Preference's
From: neilzero-ga on 01 Nov 2002 07:42 PST
 
I think the GI bill, the part about a grant while in college changed
significantly, (but was still generous) between WW2 and the Korean
war. I collected several thousand dollars toward my college 1955 and
1956, which was a lot of money then. I've forgoten the detail. I
suppose there are a few other significant benefits that only WW2 vets
got, and perhaps a hundred minor changes that affected only a few
veterns in minor ways. Bureaucrats love to change things, so hardly
any two veterens have gotten exactly the same deal.   Neil
Subject: Re: WW2 Veterans Preference's
From: vide-ga on 01 Nov 2002 09:44 PST
 
I have not received a answer to my queation yet.....vide
Subject: Re: WW2 Veterans Preference's
From: aceresearcher-ga on 02 Nov 2002 13:58 PST
 
vide,

I made some phone calls on this to help rico out. I talked to the
Education division, the Health Care and the Pension/Disability
departments. While there may have been a difference at some point in
history, they all say that there is absolutely NO difference in the
benefits veterans of WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf War are
treated today.

aceresearcher
Subject: Re: WW2 Veterans Preference's
From: vide-ga on 02 Nov 2002 19:21 PST
 
hi acreasearcher,  all of what the VA administrates past and present
is still vailable.  example: GI bill was different for ww2 and latter
war veterans.  this difference and is still available to reasearchers.
When it changed and whom it effected is available..  OPM administered
only to declared war veterans and they have closed shop and shredded
"Enron documents?"  What "IF" a "D day 80 yr old veteran today was
hired by the civil service as a first time federal employee."  How
would he determine his entitlements as a WWII veteran if nobody cares
and his human resource specialist never herd about world wars?  thank
you vide

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