At present I have a car that I have full coverage on with a $250.00
deductable.  I have been letting my 18yr. old son and his friend use
it for tansportation to work (they are co-workers).  My son does not
have a permit or a driver's license at this time so his 24yr. old
friend is doing the driving ( he has a perfect driving record). About
a week ago they had a fender bender which was my son's friends fault.
According to my Ins. agent I am liable for the accident because I
permitted him use drive my car.  Because I can't afford higher
premiums and/or another violation on our policy I paid cash to the
person who's car they hit so that it wouldn't be reported to my
Insurance Co.  Well, since learning that I'm responsible for this
friend driving my car this is where my question comes in.... I'm
letting my son and his friend take my car to another state in which
they will be living and working for several months.  I don't want to
pay for the auto coverage or even expect them to because I FLATLY
don't want any violations on my policy should another arise.  My am
told by the mother of my son's friend that she will cover the car but
says that the title has to be in her name in order to do that.  Ok
that may be very true, but I'm not about to sign my car away just so
this can happen even if we can change it back when they return home. 
That just seems alittle bizarre in todays world. BIG QUESTION.... What
can I do so that I don't have to sign over my title.  Please give me
some choices as to what can be done in this situation and/or what is
the best and cheapest way for me to go in this situation?  Thank-you.

---

Clarification of Question by billabon-ga on 05 Nov 2002 12:54 PST

Thanks for your comments.  Since this is my first time posting and I
have never read any of the ?'s or comments,I realize I better not miss
a beat.  Here are some untold facts...
1.  I am a mother of 4 (3 of which are over 18)
2.  I do have some apron strings to cut.  My only problem is that mine
are make of steal and I keep backing away from my husbands electirc
saw! Ha!
3.  The car will stay in my name, although it was a graduation gift to
our son, of his choice along with making additional payments, which
will be due in monthly installments starting in 5 months.  I may buy
it back when and if he tires of it, I love that car...it's loaded.
4.  My son will not leave with my car until he obtains a permit.  That
my rule.  He has attempted several times only to fail. (I beleive a
horrible truck accident that he and his father were involved in about
3 years ago has really given him a fear of driving, and thus he has no
real drive (desire) to drive.
5.  My son's friend, who was driving my car will be paying me back for
the payoff that I paid to the person who's car he hit. He does feel
responsible and I intend to let him pay for his mistake, even though
legaling I am liable.
6.  Sell my car.... Yeh, I should have about 10 months and $4,000.00
ago.  It stated with a blown engine and after fixing that, the
transmission went, at which point we felt somewhat commited.  Well the
chain cont...to have a reaction, so NOW we feel the car is like new
and we couldn't sell it for 1/3 of what we put into it the past 10
months.  (believe me there are alot of untold details and stories that
go with this).
7.  I have since bought a much newer car with a 2 yr. warranty just
for peace of mind, but someday if not the car being sold to my
son...I'd like to drive a luxury car again with all the fun options!
8.  This 18 yr. old son, the third of 4 has been a blessing to our
lives.  He deserves some help from my husband and myself as he has
really caused us no trouble or financial burden.  The two older ones
made sure there was nothing left! HA! (but not really funny, as
they'll be paying us monthly payments for moons to come).
  Question....is having your name on the registration the same
document as the title?
Hope this gives alittle more detail so that comments aren't made that
really don't apply.  Not that I took any offensively...I just didn't
list enough facts.
Thanks for your input

Hello, billabon,

As the mother of three grown children -- two daughters and a son -- I
am familiar with such things.

This is a personal observation only.  :)

Part of raising children is to teach them to accept responsibility. At
some point you need to cut the apron strings and let them go out into
the 'big, bad world' on their own. (Sometimes, I wish my husband
shared my philosophy.)

All my kids had a driver's licence and a vehicle shortly after their
sixteenth  birthdays. My husband, who is a mechanic, shopped with them
for the best possible vehicle they could get... I handled helping them
with loans and financing. We allowed them to ride on our insurance
policy (at one time we qualified for a fleet rate!) but they paid the
increased premiums.

If your son is 18, he should get a driver's permit; if his friend is
24 and was the driver when the accident you mentioned occurred, HE
should have borne the expenses of the damage which resulted.

I have no information relevant to your question, only some advice.
Your son is working -- tell him to apply for a learner's permit, hire
a driving instructor, pass his driving test, and pay for his licence.
If he wants to work out of state, tell him to get a bus ticket to his
destination of choice and use public transportation (like so many
others do) to get to work until he can personally get himself there.
As for his 24 year old friend -- well, Alexander the Great had
conquered Greece for his Dad by that advanced age. You aren't
financially responsible for your son's friend, or even your son at
this stage in his life.

Do I sound cold? It's like I tell my kids: "While I'll always be your
mother you're grown now, and I'm done 'mothering' you." Do they resent
me? No. They are great kids and can stand stand firmly on their own
two feet, knowing all the while that I love them and support them in
many ways, financially they are on their own.

I strongly recommend you don't sign over title of your vehicle to the
mother of a friend of your son. I strongly recommend you do nothing
further than you've done. I have no qualifications in any capacity
beyond my own assessment of this situation.

I wish you the best,
revbrenda1st

I agree with Revbrenda1st-ga.  If two people are legal adults and are
living in another state, you shouldn't bear any responsibility for
their insurance.  The solution is to sell the car to the 24-year-old
or his mother and let them worry about it.  Just my personal opinion
here.

The owner of the vehicle should have insurance on the vehicle as that
person is liable for its use. A person not owning a vehicle,
technically, should not insure the vehicle as they have no "insurance
interest" in the vehicle. That is, they are not liable for its use nor
would they suffer a loss if it was damaged. I say technically as the
"perfect" world sometimes does not transfer over into the "real"
world. Truth is, situations like this happen all the time. My father
obtained the loan on my vehicle as he could get a lower rate then I
could and I make all the payments. He does not live in my household
nor does he drive my vehicle. However the vehicle is registered in
both of our names (mine as I drive it and his as he "owns" the
vehicle). Now who should insure the vehicle? Tough question.

In your case it might be best to list your son's friend on the
registration as he is driving the vehicle all of the time. He should
also be listed on an insurance policy, be it his or his mothers, along
with that vehicle. About retitling the vehicle... insurance companies
actually don't ask too many questions about who owns a vehicle. Too be
honest, it does not matter much to them as they collect the premium
based on the vehicle, location, and listed drivers. As long as this
information is correct, they know they are collecting the right
premium for the risk regardless of who owns the vehicle (it makes
handling claims a little difficult, though).

It would be my recommendation if the mother of the son was going to
insure the vehicle on her policy that it be registered under her name
or her son's (the driver) and that the son be listed on that policy.
If the insurance company won't write the policy, then the vehicle
could be registered under your name and the drivers and he could
obtain the insurance policy.

You, as the owner, should be an insured under the policy, and you may
want to consider adding yourself as an excluded driver under that
insurance policy. This means a premium would not be charged on you and
that you _may_ not be covered if your driving the vehicle and in an
accident. I'm mentioning this as the policy application may ask that
you be listed as the owner (but again, many don't ask this
question.... go figure).

Your best bet...? Use an agent and explain the situation or call the
insurance company you plan on using to insure the vehicle and ask them
how they want the policy to be written. But, like I said, that may
"require" that the owner of the vehicle obtain the policy... when in
reality most of them ignore this situation.

Dear Billabon-ga,

Arrange to rent the car to your son's friend.
Get legal papers drawn up, with a formal
rental agreement and a conractual requirement
that he provide insurance coverage, and a
monthly rental payment. (You can make that
payment as low as you like.)

That will enable that young man to get insurance
coverage on the car without selling it to him.

They both sound like fine young men.
Courteous and responsible.

But, it's time your son learned to drive. 
He'll be more of a help on the long trip if
he can help out in an emergency.

I hope you work it all out.

Best wishes,

Your TaxMama-ga