who said it?  someone before Leary?  is it part of a larger quote from
a Greek?

please, PLEASE, only accept this question if you're in love with this
quote and would like to know as much about its origins as granny.

I need one of those researchers like a Yul or a RyanJPhillipe who'll go to
the ends of the earth for a customer.  they don't answer many
questions because they get obsessed with that one *singular* pursuit. 
that's the kind of researcher I need on this question.  does that
describe you?

granny can't pay a lot for her questions but at least she's irregular.

thank you for your doggedness!
(ruff) GB

---

Clarification of Question by badabing-ga on 28 Mar 2003 15:16 PST

thanks, dearest of pinks.  I knew I'd omit a dogged pursuer's name. 
Plato was who I had in mind but I'd like to follow this quote and a
list of permutations/misattributions until it fell from the Well of
Timmy.  would you consider this undertaking -- with tip compensation,
of course?  is this something that would get your feathers moulting?

Granny,

I'll leave the formal answerage to Yul or RyanJPhillipe, but I'd like
to put in my .00 cents' worth. I believe the sentiment, if not the
exact phrase, smacks of Socrates (by way of his mouthpiece, Plato).

"Despite his own opinion of the Academy, Plato is today best known and
revered for his dialogues, which addressed issues of ethics and reason
through the exchanges between characters in stories. Socrates appears
in several, including The Apology, wherein he presents a description
of the philosopher's life to the Athenian court, and Crito, which asks
if an individual has the moral right to question authority."

Outcyclopedia
http://members.fortunecity.com/outcyclopedia/plato.html

Consider Plato's account of Socrates' dialogue with Euthyphro
regarding the determining of piety and impiety, in which this
rhetorical question appears:

"Ought we to enquire into the truth of this, Euthyphro, or simply to
accept the mere statement on our own authority and that of others?"

Greece.com
http://www.greece.com/library/plato/euthyphro_04.html

~Pink

RESEARCHERS: FYI: Other work has been done on this type of question in days past.

http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=109595

tutuzdad-ga

Granny,

The Pinkster is not functioning well today, as her head is filled with
medicaments which have brought on a bad case of "Hardening of the
Smarteries."

If it's all right by you, I'll leave this bone for a more
intellectually-acute individual to chew on.

Pink power to ya. I think I'm gonna turn on, tune in, and veg out.

~P

granny completely understands and will join in a medication regimen
this evening.  I've done quite a bit of work on this question but
needed another  hand or two.  in the meantime, if you or anyone knows
how to get a NyQuil stain out of a carpet, granny be obliged.  she's a
walking timebomb.

feel mo'betta, pink!  will consider the baton passed.

Here's my favorite incarnation, granny:

"The Improver of natural knowledge absolutely refuses to acknowledge
authority, as such. For him, skepticism is the highest of duties,
blind faith the one unpardonable sin." -- Thomas Henry Huxley
(1825-1895)

"I finished your book yesterday. . . Since I read Von Baer's Essays
nine years ago no work on Natural History Science I have met with has
made so great an impression on me & I do most heartily thank you for
the great store of new views you have given me. . .
As for your doctrines I am prepared to go to the Stake if requisite. .
.
I trust you will not allow yourself to be in any way disgusted or
annoyed by the considerable abuse & misrepresentation which unless I
greatly mistake is in store for you. . . And as to the curs which will
bark and yelp -- you must recollect that some of your friends at any
rate are endowed with an amount of combativeness which (though you
have often & justly rebuked it) may stand you in good stead --
I am sharpening up my claws and beak in readiness"
Letter of T. H. Huxley to Charles Darwin, November 23, 1859, regarding
the Origin of Species
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/thuxley.html

ace

Granny:

Refferring to his philosophical idea "Always question—question
authority, question motives, question everything.", ZEPHRAM
Philosophical Biographies notes that "...Socrates was eventually tried
and executed for his support of tyrants and his "disloyalty" to the
principles of democracy."

While no indisputable evidence likely exists to support the claim that
Socrates first uttered the phrase, he is undoutedly the first learned
voice to give rise to the notion as an inalienable human right in the
form of a philosophical concept.

ZEPHRAM PHILOSOPHICAL BIOGRAPHIES
http://www.zefram.org/philosophy/bios/bio.php?socrates

Regards;
tutuzdad-ga

...but "I" am probably the first to spell the word "referring" with two "f's".

(sorry for the fat fingers)

Dad

this is what I have so far...


“Every person is to be in subjection to his governing authorities. For
there is no authority except from God, and those which are established
by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordnance
of God; and those who have opposed will receive condemnation upon
themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but
for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good
and they will give you praise; for those in authority are a minister
of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for
authority does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of
God, an avenger who brings wrath on one who practices evil.” -- Romans
13  http://www.popcultureprophecy.com/authority.html

"Think for yourself. Question authority. Throughout human history, as
our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not
know who we are, or where we're going in this ocean of chaos, it has
been the authorities: the political, the religious, the educational
authorities, who have attempted to comfort us by giving us order,
rule, regulations. Informing, forming in our minds an inner view of
reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn
how to immerse yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness--
chaotic, confused vulnerability to which you owe yourself. Think for
yourself. Question authority." - Timothy Leary
http://www.extremistvector.com

"Lao Tzu's treatise the Tao Te Ching (The Way) is the basis for much
Confucius' teachings and both Confucius and Lao Tzu's teachings were
the basis for later sophists Chuang Tzu and Li Po. Confucius was the
teacher of the elite classes and, like Socrates, was compelled into a
voluntary exile because of his controversial ideas. Both the Greek and
the Chinese philosphers' teachings were based on the concepts of
honoring the past and obeying the rules of the societies they lived.
Nevertheless, in seeming opposition to this, their teachings advocate
the critical study of these traditional ideas. The goal for all was to
create a better or "utopian" society but Socrates' ideas are co-opted
by us with the famous quote "Question Authority," which in some ways
represents subversive or anarchistic forces. This is where the flavor
of Chinese teachings differs from Socratic teachings. Chinese
philosophical treatises demonstrate that the mindful and critical
study of previous teachings is not permission to defy or deny their
central tenets."
http://uweb.superlink.net/~fsu/tao2.html

Tao Te Ching on authority:
http://uweb.superlink.net/~fsu/tao2.html

"I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God,
subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of
political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth."  William
F. Buckley Jr.
 
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking
respect given to authority."  Molly Ivins

"No statement should be believed because it is made by an authority."
Hans Reichenbach 

"If we question authority, what do we ask it?" -D. Henry Martin 
http://sansdreamscape.net/quotebook.html

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not
believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your
religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of
your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they
have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and
analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and
live up to it."  The Buddha

"Every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the absolute
rejection of authority."  Thomas H. Huxley (1825 - 1895)  (Thanks,
Ace!)

"The best government rests on the people, and not on the few, on
persons and not on property, on the free development of public opinion
and not on authority."  George Bancroft

"Ours is an age of criticism, to which everything must be subjected.
The sacredness of religion, and the authority of legislation, are by
many regarded as grounds for exemption from the examination by this
tribunal, But, if they are exempted, and cannot lay claim to sincere
respect, which reason accords only to that which has stood the test of
a free and public examination."
Immanuel Kant (1724 - 1804)


thanks to everyone for contributing and feel free to add to the list.

Hi Granny!

I have been hoping the day would come that I could be of assistance to
you... I used to own a Carpet and Upholstery Cleaning company. If you
could answer a couple questions, I can instruct you as to how to
remove that NyQuil...

1) How big is the spot?
2) How old is the spot?
3) Have you tried to remove the spot, and if so, what have you done
(what products, etc) ??

Sincerely,
--Cynthia

PS: This is not my *only* area of expertise, but it IS a major one.

thanks for your kind offer, Cynthia.  I got the stain out with Folex. 
good stuff, that.  I'll catch ya next time. ;-)
http://www.folexcompany.com