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Q: Differences between men and women and how their brains deal with memory? ( Answered,   1 Comment )
Subject: Differences between men and women and how their brains deal with memory?
Category: Science
Asked by: lizardnation-ga
List Price: $50.00
Posted: 10 Feb 2004 15:44 PST
Expires: 11 Mar 2004 15:44 PST
Question ID: 305523

I'm seeking a summarization by a researcher of their findings in the
area of scientific research that they can reference which focuses on
the difference between the how men and women remember.

This should covere what neuroscience has to say in relation to the
subject.  Are the memory regions in the brain different in men and
women?  Brain waves? hormonal differences and their impact on memory
perhaps?  I'm just throwing ideas here, so please suggest the areas of
your research which will satisfy the main theme of is there a
difference between how men remember and how women remember?  This
covers storing information and retreiving it I would assume.

Thank you.

Subject: Re: Differences between men and women and how their brains deal with memory?
Answered By: umiat-ga on 11 Feb 2004 00:11 PST
Hello, lizardnation-ga!

Memory is a complex and interesting subject. There is no doubt that
research reveals differences in the memory processes between men and
women. Sex hormones, stress hormones, different sides and parts of the
brain and variations in the processing emotional experiences are all
factors that have received attention.

I have tried to pinpoint the major theories and research behind the
differences in memory processing between men and women. There are many
other avenues to this research that could allow the research to take a
number of twists and turns, but I have tried to stay on the straight
road and focus strictly on issues of memory, rather than digressing.

If I have neglected any specific aspects about memory that you would
like answered, please don't hesitate to ask. The following should
provide a good, general overview.


The following is a very short summarization of a copyrighted article
that can be read in full at the link below.

Men and women often display different cognitive abilities in regard to
various spatial tasks. On average, men also excel at mathematical
reasoning, whereas women are better at spatial and verbal recall.
These differences are suspected to be linked to early exposure to sex
hormones. In fact, seasonal differences in hormone levels also affect
changes in cognitive ability in both men and women.

Read "Biological constraints on parity between the sexes," by Doreen
Kimura. (2001) Psynopsis, Winter, Vol. 23, p.3


Two theories explain different the methods women may use to aid in the
memory of emotional events. The Affect Theory suggests that women
experience events more intensely than men, and can therefore remember
them more vividly. The Cognitive Theory suggests that women "encode"
memories differently than men. Moreover, MRI imaging in the following
study revealed that women displayed nine areas of the brain that were
active in memory and emotion, compared to only two in men.



"Women and men use different networks of brain regions to remember
emotional events, report scientists this week in PNAS. Previous
studies demonstrated that women are better at remembering such events
than men, but until now there has been little evidence to distinguish
between the two most plausible explanations. The "affect intensity"
theory suggests that women experience emotional events more intensely
and thus remember them better, while the "cognitive style" theory
posits that women use a different set of strategies for encoding and
remembering emotional events. In this study, Turhan Canli of State
University of New York at Stony Brook and colleagues used functional
magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) to measure the brain activity of men
and women viewing images that ranged from emotionally neutral (e.g.,
fire hydrants) to highly negative (e.g., mutilated bodies). Three
weeks after the scan, the subjects were given a surprise memory test.
As in previous studies, women remembered emotional images better than
men and also rated the images as more intensely emotional. When
correlations between brain activity and memory scores were calculated,
significant gender differences were uncovered. Activity in nine
different areas of women's brains correlated with both memory and
emotion, whereas men exhibited only two such areas. The differences
remained even when emotional intensity was controlled for, lending
support to the "cognitive style" theory. The authors speculate that
women's superior memory for emotional pictures may be due to better
integration of brain processes associated with emotional experience
and memory encoding compared to men."

From "Sex differences in the neural basis of emotional memories" by
Turhan Canli, John E. Desmond, Zuo Zhao, and John D. E. Gabrieli.

(Full Text


Women appear to concentrate various aspects of emotional memories in
the same part of the brain, allowing them to remember emotional events
more intensely than men.

A recent research study published in the Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences, titled "Sex differences in the neural basis of
emotional memories," measured two kinds of brain activation -
activation that increased for emotionally intense feelings and
activation that predicted remembrance of specific pictures associated
with an event.

"As expected, Gabrieli said, both sexes reacted to negative images
more intensely than to neutral ones. "Both groups turned on lots of
parts of the brain for emotional feelings and for building future
memories," he said. "But the big difference was that in women, they
tended to be in the same place in the brain. If part of the brain
turned on because something was emotionally intense, it also seemed to
predict whether [the subject] would remember something later on. In
men, there was very little overlap between the two activations.

"That would suggest a potential physical mechanism in the brain where
women incorporate emotional experience into their memory. Because
different parts of the brain turned on in men, it seems there is more
separation in their brains between emotional processes and memory
formation processes." In other words, he said, memory in men included
less emotional information."

From "Women remember disturbing, emotional images more than men," by
Lisa Trei. Psychology


Research has shown that memories of emotionally charged events are
often coupled with a loss of memory for experiences that occurred just
prior to the "big occurrence." Interestingly, women suffer from this
memory loss more than men.


"Emotionally charged events often seem particularly memorable. But
this vivid recall may come at a cost. A new study in England suggests
that the same biological process that aids recall of emotional
experiences also blocks memories of what happened just before those
arousing occurrences took place."

"These memory effects appear to depend on a common neurobiological
mechanism, says neuroscientist Bryan A. Strange of University College
London. Women suffer larger emotionally instigated memory losses than
men do, Strange and his coworkers also have found."

"Emotion-induced memory gains and losses reflect the activity of
stress hormones from the adrenal glands on the amygdala, an
inner-brain structure, the scientists assert in the Nov. 11
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."

Read "Forgetting to Remember: Emotion robs memory while reviving it,"
by Bruce Bower. Science News Online. (Nov 8, 2003)


"In testing how men and women store these type of memories, a UCI
research team found that the amygdala, an almond-shaped structure
found on both sides of the brain, processes emotionally influenced
memories exclusively on the right side of the brain in men and on the
left side in women. Their results appear in the January 2001 issue of
the journal Neurobiology of Learning and Memory."

"While we don't yet know why this occurs, these results demonstrate a
clear gender-related difference in amygdala involvement in the
formation of emotionally impacted memories," said Larry Cahill of
UCI's Center for the Neurobiology of Learning and Memory, who led the
study. "They also suggest that further research on memory must take
gender into consideration."

Read" Men and women use different sides of their brains to store
memories of emotional experiences." University of California (January
9, 2001)

Depending on the cognitive function, men and women use many parts of
the brain, but not necessarily the same parts or the same sides!

"A growing number of imaging studies reveal that women and men do not
process certain cognitive information in the same way. For instance,
researchers have found that women, when trying to exit a virtual 3-D
maze, activated the right parietal cortex and right prefrontal cortex;
men triggered the left hippocampus alone. When viewing emotionally
disturbing images, women showed an increase in activity on the
amygdala?s leftside; in men, it was the right side."


"In a face-recognition-memory task, boys used more of their right
brain while girls used more of their left, as measured by
event-related potentials (ERPs). ERP is a derived measure of the
electroencephalogram, which provides gross information about brain
electrical activity."

From "Deciphering How the Sexes Think," by Karen Young Kreeger. The
Scientist. (Jan.21, 2002)

For an example of the many avenues an exploration of the differences
in the male and female brain can follow, see:

"Sex Differences in the Brain," by Doreen Kimura. Scientific American.
May 12, 2002.


 I hope this answer provides you with a general overview of the
various explanations concerning differences in memory processing
between men and women. If you want to focus on a more precise aspect
of memory in relation to a specific topic, I will be happy to
investigate further.


Search Strategy
memory research
memory differences between men and women
hippocampus and memory differences men and women
how men and women remember
memory differences in men and women
Pubmed search on memory and gender differences

Request for Answer Clarification by lizardnation-ga on 11 Feb 2004 00:54 PST
Hello Umiat,

Thank you for the research work, very well done. :-)

I would appreciate digging in deeper into the area of memory loss
between men and women.  Differences, who loses more than the other and
why does that seem like the case?  Statistics on the issue in terms of
tests and their numbers and findings?  I'll add something on top to
cover your time for this focus area in the tip.

Thank you. :-)


Clarification of Answer by umiat-ga on 11 Feb 2004 07:36 PST
I would be happy to look further. Just one question, however. Are you
referring to memory loss in relation to medical and age issues? Or,
are you referring to the aspect of memory as it applies to
"remembering"...for instance, after viewing a commercial, do men and
women differ in how much they remember?

Clarification of Answer by umiat-ga on 12 Feb 2004 22:41 PST
Hello again, lizardnation!

I have located a few more articles dealing with Memory Loss in Women,
primarily, and the suspected reasons for cognitive decline.
I hope these are helpful!

"A sample of 599 Dutch men and women aged 85 years completed the mini
mental state examination to determine mental impairment. In those who
scored higher than 18 points, mental speed and memory were assessed
using four neuropsychological tests. Level of formal education was
also recorded."

"The proportion of women with limited formal education was
significantly higher than that of men, but women had better scores for
mental speed and memory than men. Good mental speed was found in 33%
of the women and 28% of the men. Forty one per cent of the women and
29% of the men had a good memory."

"The authors conclude that limited formal education alone cannot
explain the differences in mental function in men and women. They
suggest that biological differences - such as the relative absence of
cardiovascular disease in elderly women compared with men of the same
age - could account for these sex differences in mental decline."
From "Elderly Women Smarter than Men." (20 June 2001)

Some scientists believe high cholesterol can play a role in dementia. 

"Not all studies support this claim, but one study recently published
in the Archives of Neurology does suggest a link between cholesterol
levels and mental functioning in seniors."

"University of California researchers recruited more than 1,000
postmenopausal women who had just completed a 4-year study of heart
disease. Blood cholesterol levels and information on medication use -
including recent use of cholesterol-lowering drugs called "statins" -
were analyzed from previously collected data. In addition, each woman
completed a cognitive function test designed to measure memory and

"The researchers were looking for - and found - a correlation between
the women's cholesterol levels and their scores on the memory test.
Women with the lowest blood cholesterol levels tended to do better on
the cognitive function test than did those with the highest
cholesterol levels."

"When the researchers compared the scores of women who took statin
drugs with those who did not, statin users had a slight edge, but the
difference wasn't large enough to draw a firm conclusion."

From "Cholesterol Linked to Memory Skills in Seniors." Tufts
University. (May 2002)!gid2=1791

(Read another article about this study)

"You Are What You Eat - Study Links High Cholesterol to Memory Loss,"
by John McKenzie.

According to a small study, women may exhibit greater cognitive loss
in old age, whether they have dementia or not.

"Women with Alzheimer's disease tend to perform worse than men on
tests of intellectual abilities, according to researchers in Germany.
When compared to men, women also seem to have slight weaknesses in
spatial thinking ability -- regardless of whether dementia is present,
the researchers added."
"The study included 84 Alzheimer's patients and 438 non-demented
elderly, who were assessed using the standard diagnostic interview for
Alzheimer's disease and other types of dementia."

From "Women With Alzheimer's Perform Worse Than Men on Tests of
Intellectual Abilities."

An excerpt from the book, "Female and Forgetful by Elisa Lottor,
Ph.D., N.D. and Nancy P. Bruning, Warner Books (2002), follows:

"Brain anatomy differs between men and women. As men age, they lose
tissue in the portion of the brain associated with thinking and
feeling. As women age, they lose brain tissue in the portions of the
brain responsible for memory and visual and spatial abilities."

"...these findings suggest that women tend to lose their memory more
often than men, and that memory related to sight and space suffer

"Older women with high estrogen levels are less likely to suffer
cognitive decline, according to a study published in the most recent
edition of the British medical journal, The Lancet. Dr. Kristine
Yaffe, of the University of California, San Francisco, led a team that
measured the natural levels of a certain type of estrogen, called
estradiol. The researchers found that postmenopausal women with higher
natural levels of estradiol experienced less cognitive decline,
including memory loss and other mental abilities."

"The study followed 425 women who were 65 or older over a six-year
period. Their cognitive performance was assessed on a standard scale
when the study began and again six years later. All the women showed a
slight decline in cognitive function, but among the women with higher
levels of free estradiol, only 5 percent showed a significant
cognitive decline. In contrast, about 16 percent of women with lower
levels showed a decline."

Read "Memory Loss in Post-menopausal Women Connected to Estrogen
Levels." (Aug. 2003)

"Nulliparity and Late Menopause Are Associated With Decreased
Cognitive Decline," by Robert N. McLay, Ph.D., M.D., Pauline M. Maki,
Ph.D. and Constantine G. Lyketsos, M.D., M.H.S. J Neuropsychiatry Clin
Neurosci 15:161-167, May 2003

This short abstract highlights research suggesting that women who
experience late menopause as well as other factors suffer less
cognitive decline as they age.

Menopause and Memory Problems
 "Menopause symptoms due to estrogen deficits, include memory
problems, trouble finding words, inability to pay attention, mood
swings and irritability, in addition to the more well known symptoms."

From "Women and Alzheimer's Disease," by Gayatri Devi, M.D.


"Postmenopausal women with Alzheimer's disease who undergo long-term
estrogen replacement therapy (ERT) may make their memory loss worse,
according to a new study from researchers at the University of

From "Long-Term Estrogen Replacement Therapy in Postmenopausal women
with Alzheimer's Disease May Worsen Memory Loss, Study Suggests."
American Psychological Association. October 27, 2002.


"Despite frequent complaints of forgetfulness among women going
through menopause, a new study suggests their memories are just fine.
Researchers expecting to see signs of mental decline in 803 menopausal
women found evidence to the contrary -- the women's scores on periodic
memory tests improved slightly over time.

"We are not saying that the forgetfulness is all in their heads," said
lead researcher Peter M. Meyer, a biostatistician at Rush University
Medical Center in Chicago. "The question we were trying to answer was:

"No mental decline found in menopause; Many women complain of memory
loss during menopause, but researchers say stress might be the cause."
The Grand Rapids Press (Grand Rapids, MI); 9/23/2003


"Several studies showed mixed evidence that oestrogen replacement
therapy (ERT) or hormone replacement therapy (HRT) can reduce the risk
of AD."

"In a study in Baltimore, Maryland, comparing women taking ERT and
those who were not, showed better memory performance among the ERT
users. Randomised clinical trials suggest that if you are
post-menopausal, ERT and HRT have significant effects on your brain,"
according to Prof Murphy.

"Another study involved young women and post-menopausal women either
on ERT or not on ERT. Comparisons revealed that there was a very
significant increase in breakdown of nervous cell membrane among
non-ERT users compared to young women and ERT users. This membrane
breakdown was more pronounced in the hippocampus and parietal lobe,
showing the direct relationship between ageing, membrane breakdown,
and memory loss."

"And there is a significant relationship between the length of time
the patient was menopausal and not an ERT user, and on the increase in
membrane breakdown and memory loss."
From "Oestrogen may delay Alzheimer's."


"Men's brains shrink more with age than women's. According to C.
Edward Coffey, M.D., chair of Henry Ford's department of Referral
psychiatry, "We found that age-related shrinkage was greater for men
in three regions of the brain that are involved in thinking, planning
and experience memory". This could explain why males are more prone to
age-related illnesses such as Alzheimer's and memory loss."

From "New Evidence for Differences Between Male and Female Thinking."
Brain News In Briefs Edition 1. (21 December 1999)

"Researchers have noted that males between the ages of 60 and 70 are
not as apt to develop Alzheimer's disease, as are women in this same
age range. But by the age of 84, the disease begins to affect both men
and women equally. Since men typically secrete more of three androgens
-- testosterone, methyltestosterone and epitestosterone -- than women,
researchers have pursued the theory that these male hormones might
offer neuroprotection against the onset of Alzheimer's disease."
From "Ovarian Hormone Therapy." (Abstracts of articles)

"Violence and Sex Impair Memory for Television Ads." Brad Bushman and
Angelica Bonacci.Iowa State University. Journal of Applied Psychology.
Vol 87, No. 3.

Clarification of Answer by umiat-ga on 13 Feb 2004 06:42 PST
For the article, "Oestrogen may delay Alzheimer's," you will have to
type it in the seach box and click on the "cached" link, since it is a
subscription-based article.

Clarification of Answer by umiat-ga on 14 Feb 2004 12:01 PST
Hi, lizardnation!

 Just checking in to find out if this answer is satisfactory since I
never heard from you concerning my clarification!


Request for Answer Clarification by lizardnation-ga on 14 Feb 2004 13:06 PST
Hello Umiat,

Thank you for the wonderful work! :-)

I'm interested in memory that applies to "remembering" in general.  As
you've suggested, in remembering events as they happen such as viewing
a commercial, do men and women differ in how much they remember?

Thank you.


Clarification of Answer by umiat-ga on 15 Feb 2004 21:54 PST
Hello, lizardnation!

 I am feeling particularly inadequate in my ability to find just the
right information for you. There is so much out there concerning
memory and the differences in the "way" men and women remember, but I
cannot seem to pinpoint any references that show significiant
differences in "memory loss" between men and women unless it relates
to some sort of aging or disease process.

When I get into the advertising aspect, there are many avenues to
follow, with a tremendous amount of reasearch, but nothing specific to
memory loss.

Perhaps these additional articles will shed some interesting light on
additional aspects of women and memory.



"In fact, some studies of childhood and adolescent memories do suggest
that men and women are motivated to remember different aspects of
their experiences (Cowan & Davidson, 1984; Schwartz, 1984; Thorne,
1995). In these studies, women typically focused their
autobiographical narratives on affiliative themes, whereas a majority
of the men's autobiographical memories focused on experiences related
to mastery and performance. Women typically included other people in
their descriptions of the past, whereas men's memories had an evident
lack of details about other people."

"In this study I was particularly interested in knowing whether gender
differences would be found in a pool of memories that individuals
regarded particularly vivid and readily recalled. This pool of
memories has been referred to by a variety of terms, most notably
"flashbulb memories" (Brown & Kulik, 1977) and "vivid memories" (Rubin
& Kozin, 1984). The term flashbulb memories has been used to denote
vivid and long-lasting memories of circumstances in which a person
first heard about a dramatic public event."

"The present findings suggest that men and women not only recall
different kinds of episodes, but also develop different ways of
representing and describing events they remember. Although the vast
majority of episodes described by participants were highly emotional
and interpersonal by their nature, there were differences in the
amount of emotional and interpersonal information provided by men and
women. Women placed their personal experiences in more interpersonal
contexts, that is, they more often referred to other people in their
narratives than did men. In addition, women's narratives included more
information about emotional aspects of events than did men's
narratives. Furthermore, consistent with the prediction based on
gender differences in the development of autobiographical memory
(Fivush, 1998; Fivush et al., 1996), women's narratives were more
detailed than men's narratives."

Exerpt from "Gender differences in vivid memories," by Agnieszka Niedzwienska
Sex Roles: A Journal of Research (Oct 2003)


A study of 17 "love-struck" volunteers found that women remember the
emotional details about their romantic relationships.

"Fisher found that the women in the study showed more activity in the
caudate nucleus, a C-shaped region in the brain that is associated
with memory, emotion, and attention, the septum, also called the
"pleasure center," the posterior parietal cortex, which is involved in
the production of mental images, and some other parts of the brain
associated with memory recall. The men in the study showed more
activity in the visual cortex and visual processing areas, including
one area responsible for sexual arousal.

"This is Your Brain on Love," by Karen Lurie. Science Central News. (2/2004)


Recent research has shown women to have an advantage in episodic
memory tasks that involve verbalization.

"Women's superior verbal ability has been used as a partial
explanation for their better performance in such tasks, but in some
studies it has been suggested that gender differences in stored
knowledge may play a role. For example, in Lindholm and Christianson's
study (Lindholm & Christianson, 1998), women outperformed men in
eyewitness memory for a violent murder, and the investigators
suggested that women's memory of such events may be assisted by more
elaborate categories for encoding information about people.
Differences between men's and women's gender role socialization may
result in variations in the amount of detail contained in the internal
representations that guide information seeking and retrieval, and
hence influence memory for gender-related information."

"Women's recall of autobiographical events, such as childhood
memories, has been found to be superior to men's (Friedman & Pines,
1991). Buckner and Fivush (1998) have found a similar gender
difference in children's memory; girls recalled specific experiences
at greater length and in more detail than boys did. In addition, girls
recalled more interpersonal experiences, and, in describing these,
their accounts contained more references to emotion, self, and
affiliative themes. Other studies have confirmed an advantage for
women in memory for emotion-related events. Davis (1999) found that
women had fuller and faster recall than men of childhood memories
linked to emotional experiences, and Seidlitz and Diener (1998) found
that women recalled more positive and more negative life experiences
than men did."

Read "Gender-Linked differences in everyday memory performance: effort
makes the difference," by Ann Colley, Jane Ball, Nicola Kirby, Rebecca
Harvey, Ingrid Vingelen. Sex Roles: A Journal of Research (Dec 2002)


Men and women differ in the way they recall events and details. These
differences can determine the effectiveness of advertising.

"There really are fundamental differences in the way men and women
process information ... Women tend to process more extensively more
different pieces of information...Men tend to rely more on mental

This was one of many points brought out in a recent discussion on
National Public Radio's "Talk of the Nation". (Guests included Deborah
Blum, Author of Sex on the Brain and Joan Myers Levy, Professor of
Marketing & Consumer Behavior at the University of Chicago Business

"In one study mentioned, a group of people were brought to a room and
later asked to remember various items there. It happened that women
had much better memory for details than did men. Men might remember
the big picture of an office like the location of a desk or bookshelf.
But women would remember more intimate details like a vase of flowers
in the corner, or a picture of a husband and wife on a book case."

Ad agencies are beginning to consider these differences when
contemplating the effectiveness of advertising campaigns towards men
and women.

"For women, ads often are more detailed. Take for example toiletry
ads. For one thing, women are more concerned abut grooming and
appearence. And they appreciate very fine distinctions, such as 5
different variations of shampoo-for curly hair, straight hair, oily
hair, dry hair, etc. For men, by contrast, toiletry ads focus on a
single product. Men are likely to pick up on one or two very salient
and obvious kinds of cues. Men think in a more macro way, and need to
be shown the big picture. Also, men are less likely to process complex

THINGS? by Melanie Yarborough.


"Men and women process information differently in their brains.
Research indicates that men respond better when text is reinforced by
visual product demonstrations or visuals that show benefits.

* "If your audience is mostly male, you want very strong visual
reinforcement in your advertisements. In addition, some research
suggests that messages directed to males should be fairly simple and
have a single theme."

* "If women are your main audience, then the text in the ad becomes
more important. Women process verbally descriptive information better.
The text should be richer and more descriptive.  In addition, ads for
women should contain more written product information."

From "Advertising For The Human Brain How & Why Your Customers Remember You


"Other differences between male and female thinking in healthy brains
have been discovered. For example, men are better at mentally rotating
an image in order to solve a problem. Women can recall lists of words
or paragraphs of text better than men."

"Brain News In Briefs." Edition 1 (December 1999)


Additional Studies that touch on differences in memory:


"This work explored the reasons underlying interpartner disagreement
about the occurrence of intimate partner violence (IPV). Research
indicates that partners often do not agree about episodes of conflict
in their relationship. We conducted interviews with 48 women and men
with and without histories of IPV to investigate this lack of
agreement. Participant responses were analyzed and themes were
identified about why men and women disagree about episodes of

* "The main results indicate that participants think women and men
remember differently; women remember more than men, both choose what
they want to remember, and both remember that they were right in the

(You can read the full article on eLibrary with a trial subscription)

Family and Community Health : Disagreement about the occurrence of
male-to-female intimate partner violence: A qualitative study :
Armstrong, Tisha Gangopadhyay; Heideman, Gretchen; Corcoran, Kevin J;
Fisher , Bonnie; Et al. (04-01-2001)


A study which measured gender differences in rate of decline of
cognitive functioning (with measurements taken from 1,152
repspondents) found that:

* Women have higher levels of memory functioning than men, but no
gender differences were observed for speed or non-verbal reasoning

From Abstract:

"Gender Differences in Level and Change in Cognitive Functioning -
Results from the Longitudinal Aging Study Amsterdam," by Marja J.
Aartsena, Mike Martinb, Daniel Zimprichb.
Gerontology 2004;50:35-38 (DOI: 10.1159/000074387)


Clarification of Answer by umiat-ga on 17 Feb 2004 13:33 PST
Hello once again, lizardnation!

 Please let me know if you are satisfied with my additional work. I
hope I have not strayed too far afield!

Subject: Re: Differences between men and women and how their brains deal with memory?
From: omnivorous-ga on 14 Feb 2004 17:31 PST
Umiat and LN --

Scientific studies done just a few years ago (in the U.K., if I recall
correctly) showed that blindfolded mothers could identify their own
baby at near 100% levels, where fathers could do no better than a
random guess.

Best regards,


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