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Q: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE ( No Answer,   26 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: youkai_ryu-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 10 May 2004 17:42 PDT
Expires: 09 Jun 2004 17:42 PDT
Question ID: 344364
How do you remove the nail from the wood without breaking or bending
anything? http://www.johnrausch.com/PuzzleWorld/puz/tooth_and_nail.htm
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: pinkfreud-ga on 10 May 2004 17:53 PDT
 
If this puzzle is like the others on the site, I think the point is
not to remove the nail from the wooden block, but to explain how the
structure was created.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: youkai_ryu-ga on 10 May 2004 20:12 PDT
 
I know that the puzzle can be done w/o harming either the nail or the
wood. The man who made it gave me three clues:
1. Alchems Razor (the simplest answer is usually the correct one).
2. A quote from Shurlock Homes, "After you have eliminated all
impiossibilitys, the last one left, no matter how impossible it seems
has to be the right answer".
3. What is MOST matter in the world made up of?

Also: A 7 year old girl got the answer of how to get the nail out in
about 30 seconds. A quantum physicsist with a masters dagree tried for
5 hours then gave up.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: rainbow-ga on 11 May 2004 04:32 PDT
 
Hi youkai_ryu,

Since I can't be certain this is the answer to the puzzle, I'm posting
this as a comment.

"3. What is MOST matter in the world made up of?" 
Answer: Water

I believe the answer is to emerge the piece of wood in hot water. Hot
water will cause the wood to expand. Once the wood has expanded
enough, the nail can be slipped through the holes.

"...Typically, wood moves twice as much in the tangential direction as
it does in the radial direction...
...The tangential direction is along the curve of the tree rings. The
radial direction is across the rings, or through the diameter of the
tree..."

Why does wood expand and contract?
"Wood moves because of the change in moisture content (amount of water
molecules) in the wood."

http://woodworking.about.com/cs/plansanddesign/a/shrinkage01.htm

Notice the holes of the wood are in the tangential direction.

I also think this was the way the screw was put into the piece of wood. :)

Regards,
Rainbow
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: bowler-ga on 11 May 2004 12:25 PDT
 
I once saw a puzzle with a screw and a chain where a screw was
blocking you from removing the chain but the screw could not be
turned.  Normally you would turn the screw counter-clockwise to
unscrew it but this puzzle required you simply to turn the screw
clockwise to unscrew it.  It was simple but it gave my family and I
fits before we discovered the solution.

Consequently, maybe this puzzle requires you to pull the nail out from
the left side sliding the head of the nail through the holes.  I can't
see if there is a hole on the left side of the puzzle.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: pinkfreud-ga on 11 May 2004 12:33 PDT
 
Set the wood on fire. After it has burned away, the nail will remain.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: amber00-ga on 11 May 2004 12:52 PDT
 
Actually, it should be Occam's razor (or Ockham's). Named after the
medieval philosopher, William of Ockham.
Also Sherlock Holmes.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: pinkfreud-ga on 11 May 2004 12:57 PDT
 
As you initially phrased the problem, you said the nail should be
removed "without breaking or bending anything." My solution (burning
the wood) meets that requirement. Burning is neither breaking nor
bending.

However, in a comment you said "I know that the puzzle can be done w/o
harming either the nail or the wood." That's quite different, of
course.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: youkai_ryu-ga on 11 May 2004 19:20 PDT
 
First of all i am sorry that my spelling doesn't meet your approval.
However, you try staying up four nights in a row looking at a piece of
wood! I need this answer or it will drive me insane. By the way, I
tried soaking the wood in hot water, i have tried steaming the wood.
The density of the wood does not change. It does not bend in any way
shape or form. Oh and burniong it will not work either, for, the
puzzle can be sloved and put back together using "only two fingures".
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: bowler-ga on 12 May 2004 13:42 PDT
 
Can the nail be bent, or is it flexible?  If so the nail can be bent
and pulled out easily.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: rbrookes-ga on 12 May 2004 15:41 PDT
 
It's an optical illusion which only works from the angle the picture
was taken. The bits of wood which the nail goes through are actually
not in line with the bits of wood which 'appear' to be in their way
but are further towards the viewer. You can actually just pull the
nail out with your fingers
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: rbrookes-ga on 12 May 2004 15:50 PDT
 
Ah, just read again and it looks like youkai_ryu-ga actually has this
puzzle in front of him. Guess you can see it's not an optical illusion
then!!
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: youkai_ryu-ga on 12 May 2004 16:19 PDT
 
This is true. I have purchused the puzzle and have it sitting right
here in front of me. And i can assure you that it is no optical
illusion. I have tried everything! the nail can't be bent, it is a
real 16 gage penny nail. Also a friend of mine who had one smashed it
to look and make sure that it was a real piece of wood and nail. The
wood is solid, the nail is solid. It is 100% ligidiment (<- probably
not spelled right :P).
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: markj-ga on 12 May 2004 16:59 PDT
 
youkai-ryu --

I don't know if you have come across this thread on Google Groups,
which starts out discussing various theories about a similar puzzle
and then, at Message 48, takes up the specific version that you have. 
Unfortunately, the discussion never gets beyond speculative
explanations.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=steve-1703012102150001%40newtyr45.tyler.net&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522tooth%2Band%2Bnail%2522%2Bpuzzle%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26selm%3Dsteve-1703012102150001%2540newtyr45.tyler.net%26rnum%3D1

(If you can't access this enormous address, go to Google Groups and
search for -- "tooth and nail" puzzle. )
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: alisonscott-ga on 12 May 2004 17:20 PDT
 
Is it possible that the head of the nail is actually a small screw
with a large flat head, screwed into the rest of the body of the nail?
If so, you could unscrew it and then remove the rest of the nail.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: beastlyboy-ga on 13 May 2004 06:05 PDT
 
I believe that the application of Occam's razor in this instance
should cause you to think along the lines of "How was the nail put
INTO the block of wood?"

Once you've figured that out, working out how to get it out should be a doddle.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: cav12345-ga on 13 May 2004 10:03 PDT
 
please tell me if i am wrong, but i believe that the most matter in
the world is ether made up of nothing (as in the plethora of gaps
between atoms). i dont know if this has any relevance to the puzzle
apart from the creaters clue.....also i think suggesting the block is
boiled/heated/soaked is not the right way to go about it, as there is
no way i can see ether object being maleable to the extent that you
could alter its shape enough to remove the nail and then both objects
return to their origonal state.

have fun.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: youkai_ryu-ga on 13 May 2004 10:13 PDT
 
Well markj-ga, I never said that i was asking about similar puzzles.
If you had read the question more carefully to begin with, not
automatically asumed and not overanalized, you would have seen that i
was talking about that single pesific puzzle. NOW! WILL SOMEONE PLEASE
TELL ME HOW TO GET THIS STUPID NAIL OUT OF THE FRIKIN WOOD BEFORE I GO
COMPLETELY INSANE!!! >.0 ***TWEEK***
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: probonopublico-ga on 01 Jun 2004 22:04 PDT
 
The 'nail' only looks like a nail.

It actually comprises two (or more) parts that are held together by
the wood and some other component, maybe a spring.

The trick is to take one part out, then another, etc.

Go on ... Do it!
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: joet31124-ga on 03 Jun 2004 03:57 PDT
 
After looking at this question, I made a couple of the constructions.
I don't know that this was how the original was made, but (although
cruder) looked about the same. I started with a piece of wood, in this
case oak, about 1/2" x 1" and about 3 feet long. I cut a notch about
1/2 inch long and 3/4 inch deep at the center of the length. I soaked
the wood in water for a couple of days and used a heating iron to bend
the wood. It only bent a little bit, so I soaked it for a few days
more and bent a little more. After about a week, I got a right angle
at the notch and was able to drill a hole for the nail. I cut a couple
of more notches to expose the nail, put the nail through the hole,
soaked the wood again, and gradually straightened it in a vise. Then I
cut the piece down to about 5" long. From my days in biology lab, I
know that if I had access to an autoclave or some other source of
pressurized steam in which to process the wood, the bending would have
been much easier -  I've seen pieces of wood come out with the
consistency of overcooked noodles.

As I said, I don't know if this is the answer to the puzzle, but the
final product did consist of an unbroken piece of wood and a real
nail. To me it seemed that the the secret to making this puzzle was in
the length of the original piece of wood. It wouldn't have been
possible for me to make this puzzle if I had started with a shorter
piece.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: probonopublico-ga on 03 Jun 2004 04:07 PDT
 
Hi, Joet

Interesting BUT ...

A 7 year old girl got the answer of how to get the nail out in about 30 seconds.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: joet31124-ga on 03 Jun 2004 06:01 PDT
 
I guess the question is whether the 7 year old actually got the nail
out or if she just figured out how to do so. If she actually managed
to get the nail out in 30 seconds, then I'm stumped. If she figured
out how it was done, then it seems possible.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: mistik0-ga on 07 Jun 2004 16:45 PDT
 
There are two other websites with the same (similar) puzzle:
http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65j/projects.html - there is a link
to the picture in the 4th paragraph. He says the would has <i>not</i>
been softened (chemically or with steam).

http://www.miclog.com/jim/puzzle.html - the second puzzle down is to
remove the washer. Is this the same puzzle?
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: jmsvic-ga on 09 Jun 2004 11:11 PDT
 
I can figure out how to get the nail in... that is the easy part, but
getting it out without bending or breaking anything would be tricky.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: 9009271-ga on 10 Jun 2004 01:33 PDT
 
Just remove the nail the way it was put in.
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: vanquishshadow-ga on 10 Jun 2004 06:38 PDT
 
Let the tree grow over and around the nail
Subject: Re: Tooth and Nail PUZZLE
From: mistik0-ga on 10 Jun 2004 11:56 PDT
 
I think I have the answer, but I'm one day too late to collect!

First off, any clues given to you are true, but very carefully worded,
so read between the lines.

youkai_ryu, the 3 clues the man who made it gave you are completely
true, but also completely useless.

In http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65j/projects.html - (there is a link
to the picture in the 4th paragraph) gives a cluse: he says "The wood
was not steamed, nor did I use a chemical to soften the wood and make
it bend." So he could have used a "chemical" (water) to soften it, but
not bent it.

In http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=bdebc94d70803bb9&seekm=9938nm%24t01%241%40bn2.blue.net#link6
Steve Strickland says "The correct answer with incomplete information
has been posted here (in rec.woodworking) amongst all the guesses.
Even if you know the technique you still have another piece of
information missing before you can actually construct one. Knowing
that the pieces are solid should lead you in your analysis."

I believe the "incomplete information" is in here:
http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&th=95baf1b16252e1f9&rnum=2
 (this thread was started 2 days before Steve's comment.)


spoiler





spoiler






spoiler

A clue which should clinch it: look at section 2.1 of
http://www.bfafh.de/inst4/43/pdf/7thmproc.pdf

real spoiler




real spoiler



Only look at these links if you want to ruin the mystery with the messy answer!







http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&th=aadeb0c65e26a3c0&rnum=1

http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=9Wrg9.4876%24Os3.340573%40newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net&rnum=3

http://groups.google.ca/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&q=author%3Akubbfan2%40aol.com+bill

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