Google Answers Logo
View Question
 
Q: Socrates ( No Answer,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Socrates
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference
Asked by: algol-ga
List Price: $12.00
Posted: 20 Jun 2004 12:51 PDT
Expires: 20 Jul 2004 12:51 PDT
Question ID: 363671
The quote "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" is
attributed to Socrates. But what is the source for this? Which
dialogue (and where in the dialogue), or other source can I find it
in?

Request for Question Clarification by aceresearcher-ga on 30 Jun 2004 14:50 PDT
<< Google search of "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know
nothing" Socrates gets over 2000 hits. But none of the hits I looked
at show the actual source of the quote, only that it is by Socrates. I
would like to know where he said this. Which Plato dialogue (and where
in the dialogue), or other source can I find it in? I've found  places
where Socrates talks about wisdom in several of Plato's dialogues, but
I am looking for that exact quote.>>

First bear in mind, any quote by Socrates is going to originally be in
the Greek language. Any English translation of that quote is **by
definition** NEVER going to be exact, because it is a **translation**.

What's more, the only sources we have for Socrates' teachings were not
written by Socrates -- they were written by Plato (in Greek).

Pinkfreud is correct; the quote you see all over the web which is
attributed to Socrates is actually an English translation of Plato's
writings of Socrates' teachings.

Just because something is all over the Internet does not mean that it
has any truth whatsoever. This is especially a problem with trivia and
quotations, because people will frequently take one of these two types
of "information" from other peoples' sites and post them on their own
sites **without ever bothering to check whether the provenance
(supposed source) is accurate**!

As an example, look at how many websites (about 793) on the internet
claim that a duck's quack has no echo:
://www.google.com/search?q=quack+%22not+echo%22+OR+%22no+echo%22&num=100

This is an "urban legend" that has been copied and repeated hundreds
of times, but which is not true at all.
http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/duckecho.htm

Take a look at these other examples where quotes are by "common
knowledge" attributed to people -- who never actually said them at
all!
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=135140
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=232484
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=289592
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=13475
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=62956

Regards,

aceresearcher

Clarification of Question by algol-ga on 14 Jul 2004 19:50 PDT
While I agree that lots of "quotes" sort of evolve, and aren't really
attributable to the alleged source, I seem to remember reading this
quote somewhere when I took a humanities course in college some 40 odd
years ago.  Of course, the quote, being a translation, doesn't have to
be exactly the way everyone reports it, but I am hoping that it is at
least close.

I'm wondering if maybe it is not in a Plato dialogue, but from some
other source, such as a contemporary quoting Socrates.

algol-ga
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

The following answer was rejected by the asker (they reposted the question).
Subject: Re: Socrates
Answered By: pinkfreud-ga on 20 Jun 2004 14:03 PDT
 
The quote which you mention is a loose paraphrase of a portion of
Plato's "Apology", in which Socrates questions the wisdom of a person
who is reputed to be wise:

"...I went to one who had the reputation of wisdom, and observed to
him - his name I need not mention; he was a politician whom I selected
for examination - and the result was as follows: When I began to talk
with him, I could not help thinking that he was not really wise,
although he was thought wise by many, and wiser still by himself; and
I went and tried to explain to him that he thought himself wise, but
was not really wise; and the consequence was that he hated me, and his
enmity was shared by several who were present and heard me. So I left
him, saying to myself, as I went away: Well, although I do not suppose
that either of us knows anything really beautiful and good, I am
better off than he is - for he knows nothing, and thinks that he
knows. I neither know nor think that I know."

Internet Classics Archive: Apology by Plato (Translated by Benjamin Jowett)
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.1b.txt 

Here is another translation of the same passage:

I went to one of those seeming to be wise,
because there, if anywhere, I should refute the divination
and show to the oracle, 'This one is wiser than I,
but you said it was me.'
So examining this one,---for I should not tell his name,
but he was one of the politicians in whose presence
I had this kind of experience, Athenian men,---
and discussing with him this man seemed to be wise
to many other people and especially to himself,
but it seemed to me not to be so;
and then I tried to show him
that he thought he was wise, but he was not.

So as a result I was hated by him
and by many of those present;
and so going away I said to myself,
'I am wiser than this person;
for it is likely that neither of us
knows anything good and beautiful,
but he thinks he knows something not knowing,
while I, as one who does not know, do not think that I do."

Sanderson Beck: APOLOGIA SOKRATOUS (Translated by Sanderson Beck)
http://www.san.beck.org/Apology.html

A brief description of the Apology:

"Socrates (469-399), despite his foundational place in the history of
ideas, actually wrote nothing. Most of our knowledge of him comes from
the works of Plato (427-347), and since Plato had other concerns in
mind than simple historical accuracy it is usually impossible to
determine how much of his thinking actually derives from Socrates.

The most accurate of Plato's writings on Socrates is probably The
Apology. It is Plato's account of Socratesı defense at his trial in
399 BC (the word 'apology' comes from the Greek word for
'defense-speech' and does not mean what we would think of as an
apology)...

Socrates' method of philosophical inquiry consisted in questioning
people on the positions they asserted and working them through
questions into a contradiction, thus proving to them that their
original assertion was wrong. Socrates himself never takes a position;
in The Apology he radically and skeptically claims to know nothing at
all except that he knows nothing."

Crystalinks: Socrates
http://www.crystalinks.com/socrates.html

In a variation of Socrates' thoughts on wisdom and knowledge, the
philosopher Arcesilaus took things a step farther: we know nothing,
not even the fact that we don't know.

"In the Apology Socrates claims that he has no knowledge of his own,
but that he is wiser than other people only insofar as he knows that
he does not know, whereas others are ignorant even of their own
ignorance. Arcesilaus goes beyond this, saying that he knows nothing,
not even that that he knows nothing."

Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy: Arcesilaus (c. 315-240 BCE) 
http://www.iep.utm.edu/a/arcesil.htm 

"Arcesilaus (316-241 BC) was a Greek philosopher and founder of the
New, or Middle, Academy... He held that strength of intellectual
conviction cannot be regarded as valid, as much as it is
characteristic equally of contradictory conctions. The uncertainty of
sensible data applies equally to the conclusions of reason, and
therefore man must be content with probability which is sufficient as
a practical guide. 'We know nothing, not even our ignorance';
therefore the wise man will have to be content with an agnostic
attitude. He made use of the socratic method of instruction and left
no writings."

Encyclopedia/The Free Dictionary: Arcesilaus 
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Arcesilaus

Other ancient expressions of similar concepts:

We know nothing in reality; for truth lies in an abyss. 
Democritus, (c. 420 BCE) Greek philosopher.

None of us knows anything, not even whether we know or do not know,
nor do we know whether not knowing and knowing exist, nor in general
whether there is anything or not.
Metrodorus of Chios (c. 4th century BCE) Greek philosopher

This only is certain, that there is nothing certain; and nothing more
miserable and yet more arrogant than man.
Pliny ("The Elder") (23-79) Roman naturalist. (Gaius Plinius Secundus).

All we know of the truth is that the absolute truth, such as it is, is
beyond our reach.
Nicholas of Cusa (1401-64) German cardinal, mathematician,
philosopher. De Docta Ignorantia (Learned Ignorance)

Donald Simanek's Pages: The Fundamentalist Mindset 
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/scraps/scraps02.htm

Google search strategy:

Google Web Search: "plato" + "socrates" + "apology" + "wisdom" + "nothing"
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=plato+socrates+apology+wisdom+nothing

I hope this helps. If anything is unclear, or if a link does not
function, please request clarification; I'll gladly offer further
assistance before you rate my answer.

Best regards,
pinkfreud

Request for Answer Clarification by algol-ga on 22 Jun 2004 15:58 PDT
Thanks for your research, but I was already familiar with the
reference to wisdom in the Apology, and that is not the quote I am
trying to find the source for.

When I Google 

    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing"  Socrates

I get over 2000 hits for that exact quote and Socrates. 

I can't believe that they are all wrong.  

Unfortunately, none of the few dozen links that I looked at gave the
source that I am looking for, which is why I am trying Google Answers.

Clarification of Answer by pinkfreud-ga on 22 Jun 2004 16:11 PDT
I am sorry that I was unable to find precisely the quote you seek. I
do believe it to be a paraphrase which has spread so widely that it
has superseded the original quote from the Apology.

It is not uncommon for a paraphrase or misquote to become more popular
than its source, and I think that's what happened in this case. The
Internet has caused a boom in misquotation and misattribution; once
something is published on a single, influential website, it may spread
like the proverbial wildfire.

Here you may apply for a refund:

http://answers.google.com/answers/refundrequest

While applying for a refund, you can opt to repost your question. This
will open it again to other Researchers; it is entirely possible that
someone else will be able to find your quote, and it's certainly worth
a try.

Best regards,
pinkfreud
Reason this answer was rejected by algol-ga:
A Google search of  

    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing"  socrates 

gets over 2000 hits. But none of the hits I looked at show the actual
source of the quote, only that it is by Socrates. I would like to know
where he said this. Which
Plato dialogue (and where in the dialogue), or other source can I find it
in?

I've found  places where Socrates talks about wisdom in several of
Plato's dialogues, but I am looking for that exact quote.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Socrates
From: mathtalk-ga on 22 Jun 2004 16:41 PDT
 
Perhaps the popularity of this line can in part be attributed to:

Bill: Socrates; "The only true wisdom consists of knowing you know nothing".

Ted: That's us, dude. 

[Memorable Quotes from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure (1989)]
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096928/quotes

regards, mathtalk-ga
Subject: Re: Socrates
From: pinkfreud-ga on 14 Jul 2004 20:20 PDT
 
Algol,

As noted by my colleague mathtalk-ga, the source of the quote (as you
have worded it) is the film "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure." This
film is quite popular among computer geeks, which probably explains
the quote's proliferation on the Web.

://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22bill+socrates%22+%22true+wisdom%22+%22know+nothing%22

Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  


Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy