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Q: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91 ( No Answer,   6 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: jacquot1-ga
List Price: $30.00
Posted: 26 Jun 2004 13:14 PDT
Expires: 26 Jul 2004 13:14 PDT
Question ID: 366700
I want to find any record of a passenger on a steamship trip from
England to New York or back: WALTER SICKERT, a British citizen, during
the years 1888-1891.  He might have been a passenger on a steamship,
or he might have worked on the crew.  A likely port in England would
have been Liverpool.  In New York, Ellis Island was not open until
1892, so the online records of passengers going through Ellis Island
are of no use.  I am told the Barge Office at the port of New York
kept immigration records before that, but I have no idea where they
are.  Another possibility might be the National Archives -- both in
Washington and in England. There must be equivalent records of
immigration and ships passengers/crews in England for people returning
to Great Britain in 1888-1891.  Any mention of Walter Sickert's name
in an immigration record or a ship's record showing that he traveled
to New York during these years, even very briefly, will answer my
question.
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: fp-ga on 27 Jun 2004 03:32 PDT
 
"There are several independent sources of evidence that indicate
Walter Sickert was in France between August and October, 1888":

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-pamandsickert.html   (Fact #6)
Subject: Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: fp-ga on 27 Jun 2004 04:51 PDT
 
"March 1889 - mid-July 1889 - During this period, Sickert writes
twenty-one articles for the London edition of the New York Herald":

http://www.penguinputnam.com/static/packages/us/patriciacornwell/portraitkiller_chron.htm
Subject: Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: jacquot1-ga on 27 Jun 2004 15:37 PDT
 
I am not interested in any claims that Sickert was continuously in
France in August-October 1888.  Nor am I interested in the fact that
Sickert served as art critic for the London edition of the New York
Herald from March through May 1889.  I am only interested in
documentation that would place him in New York City at any time during
the period 1888-1891.  Any kind of documentation that places Sickert
for any length of time in New York City during this four year period
-- such as immigration records (either US or British), ships records,
personal letters, mentions in newspaper articles -- will answer my
question.  As I pointed out in my question, he may have been a
passenger on a steamship, or he may have worked on the crew.  The
steamship may have left from, or returned to, the port of Liverpool. 
One steamship whose records might be worth checking out was the
Northumbrian Castle -- if any records of this steamship still exist.

Regards,
Jacquot1-ga
Subject: Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: fp-ga on 28 Jun 2004 04:24 PDT
 
My previous comments were not intended to establish a chronology of
what Sickert was doing in Europe, but to determine the possible dates
of his presumed stay in New York (i.e. ruling out the time he was
elsewhere).

Starting points when researching "Ships & Passenger Lists":

http://www.cyndislist.com/ships.htm

http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html
Subject: Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: jacquot1-ga on 28 Jun 2004 10:18 PDT
 
Dear Fp-ga

I want to thank you for your responses thus far.  But while I
understand why you mentioned the claim that Sickert was in France from
August-October 1888, that is a highly contentious matter that I want
to remove from consideration in relation to answering my question
about finding documentation for a possible trip to New York City
during the period 1888-1891.  Despite what you may have read on the
Internet or in an article by Matthew Sturgis in the Sunday Times:
while there is indeed evidence that Sickert was in France for some
undetermined length of time during the summer of 1888, there is no
evidence whatsoever that establishes Sickert was in France any time
after Sept 16 -- and possibly he departed France well before that
date.  Sturgis' claims that Sickert's stay in France extended through
October is purely his supposition, unsustained by any documented facts
that bear careful scrutiny.  So I want to make clear that any claims
that Sickert was in France for any specific, continuous period of time
during 1888 are not only unproven, they are an unnecessary distraction
to finding an answer to my question.  I want to make sure that any
discussion here does not get sidetracked.  The only relevant matter is
finding documentation for a possible trip to New York.

By the way, I should add that a check of immigration records on the
Ellis Island website has revealed a trip from Liverpool to New York by
Osvald Sickert and Helena Sickert on the steamship Caronia in 1908. 
Oswald Sickert was Walter Sickert's younger brother, and Helena
Sickert was Walter's younger sister.  Unfortunately, as I mentioned, 
Ellis Island records begin in 1892.  And the period I want to examine
is 1888-1891.

Best wishes,
Jacquot1-ga
Subject: Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: fp-ga on 29 Jun 2004 10:29 PDT
 
"Walter Sickert: The Complete Writings on Art", edited by Anna Gruetzner Robins,
may include some hints concerning his presumed stay in New York.

Contents and Index:
http://www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-817225-7.pdf

Bibliographical details:
http://www.oup.co.uk/sitesearch/?view=searchresults&textsearchtype=exact&textsearchtype=exact&freesearch=Gruetzner+Robins

Well, I suppose you've already seen this book.

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