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| Subject:
Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
Category: Miscellaneous Asked by: jacquot1-ga List Price: $30.00 |
Posted:
26 Jun 2004 13:14 PDT
Expires: 26 Jul 2004 13:14 PDT Question ID: 366700 |
I want to find any record of a passenger on a steamship trip from England to New York or back: WALTER SICKERT, a British citizen, during the years 1888-1891. He might have been a passenger on a steamship, or he might have worked on the crew. A likely port in England would have been Liverpool. In New York, Ellis Island was not open until 1892, so the online records of passengers going through Ellis Island are of no use. I am told the Barge Office at the port of New York kept immigration records before that, but I have no idea where they are. Another possibility might be the National Archives -- both in Washington and in England. There must be equivalent records of immigration and ships passengers/crews in England for people returning to Great Britain in 1888-1891. Any mention of Walter Sickert's name in an immigration record or a ship's record showing that he traveled to New York during these years, even very briefly, will answer my question. |
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| There is no answer at this time. |
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| Subject:
Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: fp-ga on 27 Jun 2004 03:32 PDT |
"There are several independent sources of evidence that indicate Walter Sickert was in France between August and October, 1888": http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-pamandsickert.html (Fact #6) |
| Subject:
Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: fp-ga on 27 Jun 2004 04:51 PDT |
"March 1889 - mid-July 1889 - During this period, Sickert writes twenty-one articles for the London edition of the New York Herald": http://www.penguinputnam.com/static/packages/us/patriciacornwell/portraitkiller_chron.htm |
| Subject:
Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: jacquot1-ga on 27 Jun 2004 15:37 PDT |
I am not interested in any claims that Sickert was continuously in France in August-October 1888. Nor am I interested in the fact that Sickert served as art critic for the London edition of the New York Herald from March through May 1889. I am only interested in documentation that would place him in New York City at any time during the period 1888-1891. Any kind of documentation that places Sickert for any length of time in New York City during this four year period -- such as immigration records (either US or British), ships records, personal letters, mentions in newspaper articles -- will answer my question. As I pointed out in my question, he may have been a passenger on a steamship, or he may have worked on the crew. The steamship may have left from, or returned to, the port of Liverpool. One steamship whose records might be worth checking out was the Northumbrian Castle -- if any records of this steamship still exist. Regards, Jacquot1-ga |
| Subject:
Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: fp-ga on 28 Jun 2004 04:24 PDT |
My previous comments were not intended to establish a chronology of what Sickert was doing in Europe, but to determine the possible dates of his presumed stay in New York (i.e. ruling out the time he was elsewhere). Starting points when researching "Ships & Passenger Lists": http://www.cyndislist.com/ships.htm http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html |
| Subject:
Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: jacquot1-ga on 28 Jun 2004 10:18 PDT |
Dear Fp-ga I want to thank you for your responses thus far. But while I understand why you mentioned the claim that Sickert was in France from August-October 1888, that is a highly contentious matter that I want to remove from consideration in relation to answering my question about finding documentation for a possible trip to New York City during the period 1888-1891. Despite what you may have read on the Internet or in an article by Matthew Sturgis in the Sunday Times: while there is indeed evidence that Sickert was in France for some undetermined length of time during the summer of 1888, there is no evidence whatsoever that establishes Sickert was in France any time after Sept 16 -- and possibly he departed France well before that date. Sturgis' claims that Sickert's stay in France extended through October is purely his supposition, unsustained by any documented facts that bear careful scrutiny. So I want to make clear that any claims that Sickert was in France for any specific, continuous period of time during 1888 are not only unproven, they are an unnecessary distraction to finding an answer to my question. I want to make sure that any discussion here does not get sidetracked. The only relevant matter is finding documentation for a possible trip to New York. By the way, I should add that a check of immigration records on the Ellis Island website has revealed a trip from Liverpool to New York by Osvald Sickert and Helena Sickert on the steamship Caronia in 1908. Oswald Sickert was Walter Sickert's younger brother, and Helena Sickert was Walter's younger sister. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, Ellis Island records begin in 1892. And the period I want to examine is 1888-1891. Best wishes, Jacquot1-ga |
| Subject:
Re: Searching for documentation of a passenger/crewmember to/from England/NY 1888-91
From: fp-ga on 29 Jun 2004 10:29 PDT |
"Walter Sickert: The Complete Writings on Art", edited by Anna Gruetzner Robins, may include some hints concerning his presumed stay in New York. Contents and Index: http://www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-817225-7.pdf Bibliographical details: http://www.oup.co.uk/sitesearch/?view=searchresults&textsearchtype=exact&textsearchtype=exact&freesearch=Gruetzner+Robins Well, I suppose you've already seen this book. |
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