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Subject:
Moon Orbit!
Category: Science > Physics Asked by: mirkobetz-ga List Price: $2.00 |
Posted:
03 Jul 2004 09:28 PDT
Expires: 02 Aug 2004 09:28 PDT Question ID: 369241 |
What would happen if the moon was sent into a more eccentric orbit... like if it went in an extremely oval orbit of the earth... or orbited around a different axis? |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: corwin02-ga on 03 Jul 2004 20:38 PDT |
In short it would cause huge differences in tidal behavior probably flooding parts of the world that are now inhabited and drying parts that are not , it would cause major earth quakes caused by the same shifting of forces , it could start an whole new continental drift over time and if it passed close enough to the earth it could rip away part of the atmosphere |
Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: mirkobetz-ga on 05 Jul 2004 10:22 PDT |
Thanks Corwin. I'm doing research for a movie and maybe you can help... What about Anti Gravity? What about SECONDARY effects of anti-gravity, basically the side-effects. What is the strange stuff that happens because of antigravity (or because of the moon?s changed orbit)? For example: You are in a room with TV or computer monitors. Suddenly, slowly, the picture on all monitors starts to warp simultaneously in a really strange way. Could this be caused (and I?m making this all up?) by changes in the electro-magnetic field of the earth (caused by the moon)? Is that possible? Or a lot of people in the same place suddenly get sick ? only for a few hours. Or someone stops his car and shifts transmissions into neutral, he watches in amazement as it seems to slowly begin to roll uphill. He gets out of the car ? Puts a ball to the ground it rolls uphill. Water seemingly flows uphill, a pendulum swings only to the south... Small things. Nothing too dangerous... Stuff starts floating all around him. Water. Paper. Insects. Birds. Leafs. Dust... Little stuff... All these are the foreboding signs that get worse and worse and LEAD to a morel cataclysmic events. Vessels lifting, spinning -- assenting into the air? in a vortex of oceanwater. Earthquakes, volcanos, avalanches worldwide. I don't know... Maybe you can help. Mirko |
Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: iang-ga on 06 Jul 2004 02:17 PDT |
Gravity on the Moon's surface is only a sixth of the Earth's, so even if the Moon was touching your head, you'd still be fixed to the ground. Problems with CRTs might be a possibility - the Earth's magnetic field is around 500 milli-Gauss while fields as low as 10 mG can can affect CRTs. If you're going to disrupt the magnetic field you could get aurorae in unusual places, changes in radio communications (the car radio suddenly picks up foreign language transmissions) and problems with power distribution. If something's given the Moon that much of a jolt there'd be a lot of debris flying around, so lots of meteors. The event itself would be more than spectacular though, so I doubt anyone would be concerned about the subtle stuff. Ian G. |
Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: touf-ga on 09 Jul 2004 10:18 PDT |
Sounds like a neat movie...if you ever watched The Core, you'd probably realize just how scientifically inaccurate that movie is. Remember - people don't go to the movies for accuracy...they go for cool special effects! I work as an aerospace engineer in the satellite arena, and have quite a bit of experience with orbits and what more and what not. As a lot of these other comments note, the moon's orbit would not really affect the earth in any way other than tidal shifts. If the moon were touching your head, true, you'd still be stuck firmly on the ground. You'll weigh 5/6 what you do now, but you'll still be firmly on the ground. Same thing with cars, balls, etc. Now, consider the force of gravity dimishes as radius from the object. So, at a couple million miles, well...gravity from the moon is pretty weak. Strong enough to affect a large scale body like the ocean, but not strong enough to affect any smaller scale systems (lakes, for instance, have no/very little lunar-tidal relationships) Of course, there is also Newton's first law, which basically states that the moon won't go into a random orbit on its own. It has to have something (energy)put it into that orbit, like maybe an asteroid hitting it. Of course, this would not be a gradual change, but much more drastic/quick. Also, while CRT monitors are affected by electromagnetic radiation, the moon's orbit won't affect the earth's magnetic field. Now, you could have a strongly magnetized asteroid field pass over earth, which affects the mag field of the earth. The asteroids crash into the moon, affecting its orbit. Then again -- it's a movie...if anybody complains and says "this would never happen in real life", tell them that's why it's a movie... |
Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: dannidin-ga on 10 Jul 2004 10:37 PDT |
Mirko, How about if the celestial body which crashed into the moon, thus changing its orbit in the way you describe, was of a size comparable to that of the moon itself - a really gigantic asteroid, let's say. It could be of a denser composition than the moon, and so have a mass even larger than the mass of the moon while still being somewhat smaller in size. Then the new moon-asteroid object would have a much larger gravitational field than the one which the old moon had. That could cause gravitational effects of the kind you describe, objects rolling uphill, floating around etc. Note that, (since we are looking for absolute realism here, right? ;-)) if objects around the guy were floating in the air, the guy himself would also be. If objects were rolling uphill, the guy should also be feeling like something is pulling him and so maybe lean forward a little bit, etc... Hope this helps, dannidin |
Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: mirkobetz-ga on 17 Jul 2004 09:58 PDT |
Okay, thanks to everyone. If you have further theories as to the conseqeunces and effects etc. please feel free to add them here anytime. I'll be brainstorming this for a while and I'm sure new questions will arise... Thanks again, Mirko |
Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: deepakk-ga on 28 Jul 2004 01:08 PDT |
One impact of this is as follows. We are able to see the other part of moon surface(if it rotates on other axis). If the moon takes different time to rotate on its own axis and the earth orbit. Then from earth we can see a different parts of moon surface day by day. |
Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: smudgy-ga on 28 Jul 2004 05:40 PDT |
Hi mirkobetz- It should be pointed out that the moon does not have a magnetic field: http://www.gly.bris.ac.uk/www/teach/virtrips/nineplanets/luna.html however, some of the surface rocks display some magnetism. This probably isn't enough to affect a television display in the way you're thinking. What might happen (and I am not a geologist or a planetary astronomer, so I really have no basis for this hypothesis) is that the moon's eccentric orbit could exert strong tidal forces on the earth's core and somehow affect the earth's magentic field in that manner. Check with your friendly neighborhood earth-core geologist to find out what effect tidal forces have on the earth's core. As for the gravitational issue, the problem here is that the equilibrium point (where the moon and the earth exert the same gravitational force on an object) is a lot closer to the moon than it is to the earth. Some quick calculations seem to indicate that before the moon's gravitational force on an object started overpowering earth's gravitational force, the object would have to be more than 70% of the way from the earth to the moon. What might happen is that things might start falling more slowly due to the increased gravitational effects of the moon. Dannidin's solution is interesting, but I think before we saw any really cool effects the mass of the object crashing into the moon would have to be so massive that earth's orbit would end up totally distorted, which would lead to a whole other mess of problems. Tidal forces would certainly be a big issue. They'd have a serious effect on the oceans, the atmosphere, probably (as corwin02 notes) plate tectonics, etc. You might be able to come up with some fun effects based on these. I should make a personal plea here that you make a movie based at least loosely on good science. Try to come up with effects that are plausibly explained by actual science, or at best slight exaggerations of actual effects. Some people pay attention to this stuff and get very irritated by movies that ignore physics. You might want to check out http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/ to see the folly of movies past. Good luck, smudgy. Google searches: <planetary magnetism> <moon magnetism> <gravitation law> <movie physics> |
Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: smudgy-ga on 28 Jul 2004 05:47 PDT |
Hi again mirkobetz: One more thing. One should bear in mind that Kepler's Second Law tells us that the moon will spend a lot less time close to the earth than it will far from the earth. Also, Kepler's third law tells us that by increasing the major radius (the long side) of an elliptical orbit, we are increasing the period of the moon's revolution, so it will take longer for each orbit of the moon around the earth. I haven't reviewed the formulas in enough detail to come up with any numbers, but these things should be kept in mind in terms of plot and pacing. Google search: <kepler's laws> |
Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: meesadesiking-ga on 01 Aug 2004 20:26 PDT |
It all depends on the size of the new orbit. Elleptical orbits have a major axis and a minor axis. If the semi minor axis of the moon (ie half the minor axis) is smaller than the present distance at any moment, it will move back to its original orbit (since it forms a case of stable equilibrium). This can be proved using calculus. This is true as long as the orbit is greater than (the present orbit radius x inverse ratio of the squares of the masses of the sun and the moon)...ignoring the effect of the sun... If on the other hand, the orbit was increased, it will again restore to its original position. On the whole all objects held under a force of gravitation are in a stable equilibrium ie a small movement left or right will cause them to return back to their original position via a restoring force. THIS LEADS US TO THE IMPORTANT POINT THAT THE ORBIT OF THE MOON CANNOT BE CHANGED UNLESS IT IS CARRIED OUT DRASTICALLY. In such a case, the moon could move around in the space unless it again reaches a position where it can attain gravitational equilibrium. One thing that will definitely change in such a case (which hasnt been mentioned yet) is that the lunar month will change since the moon will have to adjust its angular velocity to compensate for the new centripetal force. |
Subject:
Re: Moon Orbit!
From: keithadler-ga on 17 Aug 2004 23:48 PDT |
It should be noted that gravity is simply the effect of curved absolute space-time and that any orbital changes of the moon would be more related to the Earth than the moon itself. Without the mass of the Earth curving absolute space-time the moon would shoot off straight into space and most likely give into the curved absolute space-time created by the Sun ... and orbit it as we currently do. Gravity is such a weak force that even something a million times larger than the Earth cannot effect spacetime more powerfully than the little Earth can on our bodies and the moon. For the moon to take a different or more eliptical orbit a major event such as a larger body colliding into or passing near it would have to occur. No moon ... no tides ... no light at night. That's about all the moon provides us here on Earth so the long term impact would be zero. Now, throughout history and evolution you could argue that the light of the moon was a critical factor for many creatures. This whole idea of EM (Electro-Magnetism) effecting us on Earth is based on false assumptions. If you're looking for a real good reason for this you should consider sun spots and simple explosions on the surface of the sun. These bursts create tons of matter which ride into our upper atmosphere and produce a hell of a lot of EM pulses. Look at the history of how Atom Bomb tests in the Pacific would wreak havoc on electricity and phone systems around the world. That as a movie fan I could buy. Who cares what's happening on the moon anyway ... but put me under some major EM pulses from sun bursts ... now I'm interested. |
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