Imagine a war between two factions who both believe in the same God ...

And, assume that both pray to the same God to help them in their fight ...

Also, assume that both sides have an equally just cause ...

How does God decide which side to support?

Is it the side that prays the loudest, the longest, or what?

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Clarification of Question by probonopublico-ga on 23 Aug 2004 00:25 PDT

Very many thanks to all!

I suspect that I am not going to get a definitive answer.

All the Best.

You think that a being which is beyond duality is capable
of choosing sides?

Hi, Sublime One

Are all Gods 'beings beyond duality'?

I dunno, I am a mere Questioner.

What about Mars? Surely he was something more than a mere Planet or a Candy Bar?

Bryan. 

God will be on the side of the righteous!

Our side, of course! 

And quiet seriously, the WWI archives demonstrate how both sides
claimed (to their own people) that "God is on our side" (somewhere
next to the claim that by Christmas they'll be all at home). Much
material is available on the Internet, describing the war propaganda
during the First World War and how religion played a role.

Historical cases of wars fought between people from the same religion
often repeat this model: each side does not only claim that they are
morally and theologically correct (even if this is not a religious
war), but also that the other side lacks morals and it is in fact a
duty to "correct their ways".

I doubt that "God" actively picks a side to support in a war.  For
example, if your two kids are fighting- do you pick a side? You more
likely want to stop them from hurting each other.

Hi, Politicalguru

Good to see you around.

I was actually thinking about WWI, where several Christian countries
were on opposing sides and, I suppose, they all thought that God was
on their side.

Are you up for a Question on propaganda in WW1, etc.?

All the Best

Bryan

What makes you think God supports either or both sides? He just sits
up there laughing all his heads off.

Owain

Neither!. All their prayers are in vain. War is just one form of
wickedness that God hates. A definition of wickedness is that which is
bad morally. And that which causes deliberate injury, is malevolent
and is destructive. This is exactly what war is. There would be no
wickedness if God had not given us free will. We, people, have made a
lot of wrong decisions, and been helped in this by Satan the devil, as
mentioned in Revelation. If you believe in the bible, you would also
believe in his powerful influence. Is he on the earth?. Yes!,according
to Revelation 12;7,12. Satan influences governments and people to
start and participate in war, and no matter how "good" a person is at
home, the moment he/she goes to war, he/she is doing Satan`s will, not
Gods.
In early wars, like w.w.1, men who did not sign up were sent a white
feather on the basis they were cowards. In actual fact, they were
doing what God required, even though they may not have realized it
themselves. If everyone refused to fight, on both sides, wars would
not happen.

King James version, Exodus 15:3 --
"The Lord [is] a man of war: the Lord [is] his name."

Great Comments Everyone,

Many thanks but I suspect that this is mostly guesswork, because I
haven't seen any Search Strategies, yet.

However, I am prepared to accept that Owain knows more than he has so
far let on with his statement that 'he's laughing all his heads off
...'

I infer this to mean that God is a man and that he has got several heads.

This should make him easy to spot, if he ever comes knocking on my door.

None of this Jupiter nonsense, dressing himself up as a swan.

The thought of people on both sides of a war praying for God's help
makes me think of the following quotation, whose vintage and pedigree
I do not know:

"Why pray? If it changes God's mind, then he is not sovereign; if it
does not change His mind, then it is superfluous."

This leads to some interesting theological dilemmas, including the one
that we're addressing now.

There is a good article at
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/2003.htm/ensign%20may%202003.htm/war%20and%20peace.htm?f=templates$fn=document-frame.htm$3.0#JD_E3305.78JD_E3305.78
that some of you may find provides an interesting perspective on this
question.

"What about Mars? Surely he was something more than a mere Planet
 or a Candy Bar?"

As is often the case, the answer is in the question:
The fact that Mars 'was', and is no longer, makes it
clear that he was not the eternal, infinite, non-dual
God in question here, of which there is only one, 
worshipped in many different traditions.

For a more edifying discussion of the topic, read the
Bhagavad Gita, in which Arjuna poses this very question
to Lord Krishna, and Krishna eventually clarifies that
all things which transpire on the earth are for the 
spiritual education of those who participate in them,
and are thus a matter of karma. The key to accepting
all this seemingly useless bloodshed is also revealed,
which is that no one ever really dies, only the body.
The spirits of these war-ravaged souls go on with their
God-natured eternal life, integrating both the joyous
and horrible experiences until they finally arrive at
an understanding of their true nature, which is beyond
good or bad, pain or pleasure, or duality of any kind.
This is, of course, a lesson which can be learned in
much less difficult ways, meditation being one.

"Know thyself" is, as ever, the key to enlightenment.

Oh... since you like links, here's one to the Bhagavad Gita:
http://www.santosha.com/philosophy/gita-chapter1.html

Before Jesus, God would have been on the side of the righteous, as
with Moses and the exodus.

After JC, God is still on the side of the righteous, but the righteous
refuse to take a side and fight.


Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.

John 13:34
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so
you must love one another.

Who do you think started the war?

Or may be he is browsing g o o g l e answers for the answer too :)
Regards
Lahoria

from the Bible. Second Peter 3;3." For you know this first, that in
the last days there will come to be ridiculers with their ridicule,
proceeding according to their own desire".4. and saying "Where is this
promised presence of his?. Why, from the day our forefathers fell
aslepp in death, ALL THINGS ARE CONTINUING EXACTLY, as from creations
beginning".
Many of the comments prove this scripture true. Prior to World War
One, most people had a deep respect for the Bible, but this is no
longer the case. Does the presence of ridiculers indicate Armageddon
is closer than we think???

All I seem to be getting are MORE QUESTIONS ...

C'mon Guys and Gals I want ANSWERS!

And well-documented answers in true GA tradition, complete with Search Strategies.

Chris (Pugwash) has even asked 'Does the presence of ridiculers
indicate Armageddon is closer than we think???'

Chris, I dunno what I think, never mind what 'we think'.

Anyhow, who is this Armageddon person anyway?

Another politician?

Gosh is it that late already?

Time to open another bottle of vino.

Hi there Bryan. How`s that english weather?. To answer your question,
Armageddon is not a person, or even a known place, but more of a
situation. Have a read of Revelation 16; 14 to 16. My source is simply
the whole Bible. Its the basis from which all other commentaries  are
based. The use of this name of Armageddon, does not mean that this
coming battle will be fought at the literal mountain of Megiddo, which
is only a mound 21 metres high, where the ancient site of Megiddo, the
town, is found. When God battles "the kings of the entire inhabited
earth", to restrict them all to a geographically small site does not
make sense, but it clearly indicates a "battlefield". In our day and
age, "Kings" refers to government organizations. In Revelation 18,
these same "Kings" will mourn the passing of "Babylon the Great",
organized religion, and the "travelling merchants", the world of
business, will say "too bad, too bad", [Revelation 18,verse 11]. Three
distinct forces. Government, business and religion.

Hi, Chris

Many thanks for the info.

I never realised that Megiddo was merely a mound only 21 metres high.
So, not much of a mountain and certainly not worth fighting about.

Is this the sort of mountain that you intend to climb? If so, I can
understand why you are only going to take a ½ bottle of Champers with
you.

Anyway, please be careful! 

The weather here in the UK is very mixed at present: some nice sunny
days and others wet and windy. In other words, typically August
weather.

But for the likes of me who hates extremes of hot and cold, it suits me fine.

All the Best

Bryan

Hi again Bryan, Pugwash here.. Gary ...not Chris...Nice to hear back
from you. No, I will not be climbing any edifice here on earth, and
anyway I`m a beer man!. In my studies of the Bible, some scriptures
can only be taken literally. Like the one which warns that the death
toll from this " War of Armageddon", people fighting God`s spiritual
forces, will be so great that the bodies will not be buried but will
become carrion food for the birds. Revelation 19;21. And in Ezekiel 39
verse 4, written 591 years before Jesus, is the prophecy of the same
results. " On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your
bands and the peoples that will be with you. To birds of prey, birds
of every sort of wing, and the wild beasts of the field I will give
YOU ...FOR FOOD. These are the warnings given to the " ridiculers" and
I am trying very hard not to be included. At the same time, the Bible
directs me to love my fellow man, to do him no harm. A good comparison
would be if I saw a stranger about to be run down by a bus..and
killed.. it would be my duty to shout a warning. I`m looking forward
to future Bible questions.

Hi Probo - - Whether we believe in "end time" prophecy or we don't,
Megiddo is more than just a bump on the landscape.  First, there was
the ancient city of Megiddo (archaeological research demonstrates more
than 25 consecutive cities at the site of Megiddo were built over a
period of six to eight thousand years.) Like onion-skins, the ruins of
over 25 layers of construction and destruction are in that mound. - -
and then, there are the Plains of Megiddo which are part of the
Armageddon valley - a beautiful agricultural region.

It's very easy to understand why Biblical prophecies predict the last
great battle between Good and Evil will be fought on the plains of
Megiddo and Armageddon. For 5,000 years, armies have met and killed
each other there. Predicting another battle at Megiddo was a
no-brainer.

Armageddon and the Plains of Megiddo, also known the Plain of Jezreel.
is a flat valley which extends all the way from Haifa on the
Mediterranean Sea, past Megiddo to Jezreel, where it slopes downward
to Beth Shan below sea level in the Jordon Valley.

Harmageddon (Armageddon) means the "Mount of Megiddo," and it has also
given it's name to that great plain of Jezreel which belts across the
middle of the region.  All the armies in the world could find room to
meet within this area.

Once again, the Mount of Megiddo, or Armageddon, is much more than
just a bump in the landscape where the city of Meggido itself once
stood.

Besides, if any armies want to fight there, they will first have to
get permission from the Department of Anthropology at the University
of Pennsylvania. :) - - They pretty much run the place.

Armageddon is an archaeological paradise and they don't want 'just
anybody' messing it up.

If life could only be that simple.

Digs

Wow, Gary & Digs

This is fascinating stuff!

Although I've never seen it, I just love this Armageddon/Harmageddon
(spellings vary) that you've both been raving about.

What a great place for a theme park!

I bet there'd be room for a super Disneyland, a huge Football Stadium,
a Cricket Pitch, a Bowling Alley, a Big Mac, Ski Slopes, Camel Rides,
a Gladitorium, an Auditorium, a Crematorium, a Sanatorium ...

The mind boggles.

And what's more, I bet the Department of Anthropology at the University
of Pennsylvania would jump at the idea.

Watch this space!

Many thanks.

All the Best

Bryan

Well i will give you my logical answer.

I believe that God will sit back and watch them kill eachother until
they can work out who wins. God doesn't pick sides.

i seriously think the real answer is that he is on neither side and
that he is hoping the war ends peacefully, but how is there so
supposed to be a search-inquired answer?? well i mean DUH who would
really know??? and why does this answer even matter?????