Google Answers Logo
View Question
 
Q: Quote About Ill-Behaved Kids -- Aristotle? Socrates? Plato? ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Quote About Ill-Behaved Kids -- Aristotle? Socrates? Plato?
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: pacmarrin-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 07 Sep 2004 16:30 PDT
Expires: 07 Oct 2004 16:30 PDT
Question ID: 398104
I am looking for a quote I remember reading by one of the famous
philosophers.  It was about how ill-behaved children were and when one
reads it you think he is talking about today's kids, not x-number of
years ago.  What is the quote and who said it?  Thanks!

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 07 Sep 2004 16:35 PDT
Is this the quote you're thinking of?

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for
authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer
rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their
legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."

Or this one?

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have
no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all
restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes
for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are
forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress."

If either of these is the correct quote, I'll be glad to tell you who
is credited with authorship.

Clarification of Question by pacmarrin-ga on 07 Sep 2004 18:48 PDT
It's the first quote (the children love luxury ...etc.)  Thank you.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Quote About Ill-Behaved Kids -- Aristotle? Socrates? Plato?
Answered By: pinkfreud-ga on 07 Sep 2004 18:55 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
I am glad to have been able to locate the quote you need. Many sources
attribute this quote to Socrates. Its actual origin is in dispute, but
the dispute is an interesting one:

======================================================================

The quote is commonly attributed to Socrates, but apparently there is
no conclusive evidence that he actually said it. The Library of
Congress notes that this quote is "attributed to Socrates by Plato" in
a 1950's book the name of which escapes me.

The quote may have come from Plato's Republic Book 4, where Socrates
is quoted saying the following regarding things that he thinks have
been neglected: "I mean such things as these: ? when the young are to
be silent before their elders; how they are to show respect to them by
standing and making them sit; what honour is due to parents; what
garments or shoes are to be worn; the mode of dressing the hair;
deportment and manners in general. You would agree with me? ? Yes."

The Greek philosopher Plato studied under Socrates. Plato complained
about the youth of the day, also. "What is happening to our young
people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They
ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions.
Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?" I think this is
a direct quote, but can't find the reference at the moment.

Here's another one: 
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).

Scouter Forums: Today's Kids 
http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=35251&p=1

======================================================================

A question which arises periodically on alt.quotations is for the full
text and the source of the 'ancient' writing complaining about the bad
manners of youth nowadays. It is frequently suggested that Socrates
coined the material (almost certainly not true) although it is
occasionally attributed to Roman, Babylonian or other ancient sources.

The following material is courtesy of D.P.B. Smith, Jerry Melin, and
William Waterhouse (with some discussion also from Dave Bostock,
Daniel T. Earl, and Kurt Foster):

There are plenty of fake quotations around, and some of them have been
around for much more than thirty years. Any direct quotation from
'Socrates' is pretty suspect in the first place, since all we know
about Socrates is what others wrote about him -- no written work by
him has survived.

(From Jerry Melin) The book Nice Guys Finish Seventh: False Phrases,
Spurious Sayings, and Familiar Misquotations by Ralph Keyes (p. 20)
states:

...the mayor of Amsterdam attributed this observation to Socrates:
'The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in lace of
exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.' This
wisdom from the grave was subsequently reported in the New York Times
and reprinted widely. After Malcolm Forbes included Socrates's [sic]
words in a Forbes magazine editorial entitled 'Youth,' his research
staff went crazy trying to prove their authenticity. They contacted a
wide range of librarians, classicists, and other experts on Socrates.
None knew of any source for the passage. The researchers finally
called Amsterdam's mayor, Gijsbert van Hall. Van Hall said he'd seen
the lines by Socrates in a Dutch book whose title he could not recall.
There the search ended. 'We suspect,' Forbes's [sic] researchers
concluded, '. . . that Socrates never did make those cracks about
Athenian youth.'

(From William C. Waterhouse) There has been some discussion of a
quotation attributed to Socrates, one version being this:

'The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and
love chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants
of the households. They no longer rise when their elders enter the
room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up
dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize over their
teachers.'
I don't know how it started, but I've found that it was probably
produced by cutting down and modifying a speech by 'Right' in
Aristophanes' Clouds, 960ff. It's amusing to find it attributed to
Socrates, because of course Socrates in that play is the leading
representative of 'Wrong'.

Anyway, here (in the translation by Patric Dickinson) are some parts
of the speech that resemble the 'quotation' above:

. . .
A boy must hold his tongue among his elders.
. . .
Greed was abhorred, it was taboo to snatch
Radish tops, aniseed, or parsley before your elders,
Or to nibble kickshaws and giggle and twine one's feet.
. . .
So, you shall learn to hate the Agora,
And shun the baths and feel ashamed of smut;
. . .
And to get up and give your seat to your elders,
And not to behave towards your parents rudely
. . . 

(From others) There are also sometimes suggestions that something
similar originated from ancient Sumer or Babylon, in particular,
something reputed to have been written on Babylonian clay tablets
thousands of years ago, a father complaining about how the rising
generation (his own son in particular) were lazy, disrespectful, were
going to make a mess of things, etc etc etc...

Another contribution was: 

I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless
beyond words.

When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of
elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of
restraint.
--- Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C. 

From the alt.quotations newsgroup Fri, 03 May 2002 
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3cd28b96.753929%40news.earthlink.net&output=gplain

======================================================================

I hope this is helpful. If anything is unclear or incomplete, or if a
link doesn't work for you, please request clarification; I'll be glad
to offer further assistance before you rate my answer.

Best regards,
pinkfreud
pacmarrin-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $2.00

Comments  
Subject: Re: Quote About Ill-Behaved Kids -- Aristotle? Socrates? Plato?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 07 Sep 2004 19:44 PDT
 
Thank you for the five-star rating and the nice tip!

~pinkfreud
Subject: Re: Quote About Ill-Behaved Kids -- Aristotle? Socrates? Plato?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 08 Sep 2004 15:52 PDT
 
In case anyone is curious about the source of the second quote that I
mentioned in my Request for Clarification, here's some info:

"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of
today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for
parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as
if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is
foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."

Who wrote that, and when do you think it was written? Your own
parents, last week? Ann Landers last year? A politician in the 60's?
Actually it is an extract from a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit
in A.D. 1274! That?s over 700 years ago.

First Evangelical Free Church
http://www.efree.org/sermons/commandments/failing_to_honor_our_parents.htm

It should be noted that the attribution of this quote to Peter the
Hermit is as shaky as the attribution of the other quote to Socrates.
But both quotes help to make the point that adults throughout history
have been alarmed by the behavior of young people, and civilization
hasn't yet come to an end because of the rebelliousness of teenagers.

Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  


Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy