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Q: Manhattan nickname ( Answered,   5 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Manhattan nickname
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: rainbowjoe-ga
List Price: $2.00
Posted: 09 Oct 2004 17:25 PDT
Expires: 08 Nov 2004 16:25 PST
Question ID: 412624
How did the borough of Manhattan, city of new york, become known as the "Big Apple"?
Answer  
Subject: Re: Manhattan nickname
Answered By: hummer-ga on 09 Oct 2004 18:11 PDT
 
Hi rainbowjoe,

Well, you've posted an interesting and delicate question. Although
many would like to credit John J. FitzGerald with popularizing the
phrase in the 1920's, its roots can be traced to a hundred years
before that, according the the Society for New York City History, and
to one Mlle. Evelyn Claudine de Saint-Évremond, who referred to her
"temptresses in her employ as 'my irresistable apples.'" I'll copy &
paste a bit of the Society's article, but please click on the link to
read it in its entirety.

Society for New York City History:
Why Is New York City Called "The Big Apple"?
" Meanwhile, various "apple" catch-phrases -- "the Apple Tree," "the
Real Apple," etc. -- were used as synonyms for New York City itself,
which boasted (if that is the term) more houses of ill repute per
capita than any other major U.S. municipality."
"This is by far the most frequently asked question submitted to our
New York History Hotline."
http://salwen.com/apple.html

>>> If you prefer more conventional origins...

Phrase and word origins:
Why is New York City called The Big Apple?
"The phrase "The Big Apple" referring to New York City was first used
in a 1909 book, The Wayfarer in New York edited by Edward S. Martin.
In a metaphor explaining the sentiment in the Midwest that the city
receives more than a fair share of the nation's wealth, he explains: "
'New York [was] merely one of the fruits of that great tree whose
roots go down in the Mississippi Valley, and whose branches spread
from one ocean to the other... [But] the big apple [New York] gets a
disproportionate share of the national sap.' " (Irving Lewis Allen,
City in Slang [Oxford University Press, 1995], p. 62)"

"The Big Apple" took on a different connotation when it was made
popular in the 1920's by the New York Morning Telegraph sports writer
John J. FitzGerald. He heard it used by African-American stable hands
at the racetrack in New Orleans when referring to New York's racing
scene which they considered the "big time." FitzGerald liked the
phrase so much he titled his racing column "Around the Big Apple." In
the introduction to his column from the February 18, 1924 issue
FitzGerald writes: "The Big Apple. The dream of every lad that ever
threw a leg over a thoroughbred and the goal of all horsemen. There's
only one Big Apple. That's New York."
(extract from The Museum of the City of New York) 
http://www.yaelf.com/questions.shtml

 Dear Word Detective: Why is New York City called "the Big Apple"? 
"...It was still unclear where FitzGerald got "Big Apple," however,
until Barry Popik, a remarkably persistent New York City slang
historian, took up the search. Popik discovered that in 1924
FitzGerald had written that he first heard the term from stable hands
in New Orleans, who referred to New York racetracks as "the Big Apple"
-- the goal of every trainer and jockey in the horse racing world...."
http://www.word-detective.com/101797.html

Why is New York City called the "Big Apple"?: by Heather Klein.
Racing, jazz musicians and a tourism campaign all play a part.
"In the early 1920s, "apple" was used in reference to the many racing
courses in and around New York City. Apple referred to the prizes
being awarded for the races -- as these were important races, the
rewards were substantial.
"...Popik found that a writer for the New York Morning Telegraph, John
Fitzgerald, referred to New York City's races "Around the Big Apple."
It is rumored that Fitzgerald got the term from jockeys and trainers
in New Orleans who aspired to race on New York City tracks, referring
to the "Big Apple."
"In the late 1920s and early 1930s, New York City's jazz musicians
began referring to New York City as the "Big Apple." An old saying in
show business was 'There are many apples on the tree, but only one Big
Apple.'..."
A 1971 campaign to increase tourism to New York City adopted the Big
Apple as an officially recognized reference to New York City..."
"In recognition of Fitzgerald, the corner of 54th & Broadway, where
Fitzgerald lived for 30 years, was renamed "Big Apple Corner" in
1997."
http://gonyc.about.com/cs/atozinde1/a/bigapple.htm

The New York Historical Society:
Why is New York called The Big Apple?
"Credit for New York's popular nickname can be traced to
African-American stable-hands working the horseracing tracks in New
Orleans. They were overheard by New York racing writer John J.
FitzGerald in 1920 saying they were heading for 'The Big Apple.'"
http://www.nyhistory.org/nyhsqa.html 

I enjoyed finding this for you. If you have any questions, please post
a clarification request before closing/rating my answer and I'll be
happy to reply.

Thank you,
hummer

Google Search Terms Used:   origin "big apple"
Comments  
Subject: Re: Manhattan nickname
From: pafalafa-ga on 09 Oct 2004 19:24 PDT
 
As a New Yorker born and bred, I second the race-track connection,
though I was always under the impression that Aqueduct Racetrack in
Queens was commonly known in the racing world as the "Big A" and that
morphed into the "Big Apple" for the track, and eventually came to
refer to NYC itself.  The phrase might have been kicking around for
decades, but it didn't really pick up general use until sometime
around the 1970's from what I can recall.

Thanks for asking the question, and thanks to hummer-ga for a terrific answer.

pafalafa-ga
Subject: Re: Manhattan nickname
From: bapopik-ga on 16 Oct 2004 00:41 PDT
 
It is not a terrific answer. Google Answers has fallen for the great
"Big Apple Whore Hoax" once again! Peter Salwen has told anyone who
asks hum that it's a "spoof." This is the second time that Google
Answers has gotten it wrong.
  
I my research with professor Gerald Cohen- accepted by the mayor, city
council, New-York Historical Society, Museum of the City of NY, and
Encyclopedia of New York City - on my web site, www.barrypopik.com. It
is the most definitive answer to this "Big Apple" question, yet Google
can't find it!
  
In honor of John J. Fitz Gerald and the horseracing origins of "the
Big Apple," I passed "Big Apple Corner" into law and dedicated it in
1997.
  
Please, Google Answers, never mention the whores again!
  
Barry Popik
www.barrypopik.com
Subject: Re: Manhattan nickname
From: bapopik-ga on 16 Oct 2004 01:21 PDT
 
Sorry for the typos. That should be "asks him" and "I put my research."
  
By the way, how come I am mentioned by name in the top results for
this "origin 'Big Apple'" search, but my web site (over 25,000 hits in
about three months) doesn't come up?
  
Barry Popik
Subject: Re: Manhattan nickname
From: hummer-ga on 16 Oct 2004 04:13 PDT
 
Dear Barry Popik,

What a nice surprise to find a comment from you, thank you for posting
it. I'm sorry that you were less than pleased with my answer, but
perhaps you got so upset when you read my first two paragraphs, that
you stopped reading. Here are the fifth and sixth paragraphs again:

 Dear Word Detective: Why is New York City called "the Big Apple"? 
"...It was still unclear where FitzGerald got "Big Apple," however,
until Barry Popik, a remarkably persistent New York City slang
historian, took up the search. Popik discovered that in 1924
FitzGerald had written that he first heard the term from stable hands
in New Orleans, who referred to New York racetracks as "the Big Apple"
-- the goal of every trainer and jockey in the horse racing world...."
http://www.word-detective.com/101797.html

Why is New York City called the "Big Apple"?: by Heather Klein.
Racing, jazz musicians and a tourism campaign all play a part.
"In the early 1920s, "apple" was used in reference to the many racing
courses in and around New York City. Apple referred to the prizes
being awarded for the races -- as these were important races, the
rewards were substantial.
"...Popik found that a writer for the New York Morning Telegraph, John
Fitzgerald, referred to New York City's races "Around the Big Apple."
It is rumored that Fitzgerald got the term from jockeys and trainers
in New Orleans who aspired to race on New York City tracks, referring
to the "Big Apple."
"In the late 1920s and early 1930s, New York City's jazz musicians
began referring to New York City as the "Big Apple." An old saying in
show business was 'There are many apples on the tree, but only one Big
Apple.'..."
A 1971 campaign to increase tourism to New York City adopted the Big
Apple as an officially recognized reference to New York City..."
"In recognition of Fitzgerald, the corner of 54th & Broadway, where
Fitzgerald lived for 30 years, was renamed "Big Apple Corner" in
1997."
http://gonyc.about.com/cs/atozinde1/a/bigapple.htm

I'm sorry I missed posting your website in my answer, that was an
oversight on my part.

Thank you for letting us know about the spoof - it certainly wasn't my
intention to promote rumors. Thankfully, there are GA readers like you
who keep us on our toes!

Sincerely,
hummer
Subject: Re: Manhattan nickname
From: bapopik-ga on 16 Oct 2004 11:12 PDT
 
No problem! You're not alone!
  
Now, about last summer's Big Apple Fest
(http://www.bigapplefest.org/_about/about_index.php)...
  
This branch of our tourism bureau put a paragraph of the Cohen-Popik
work on its web site, and then added a four-paragraph, word-for-word
transcription of the whore hoax.
  
The first article about the Big Apple Fest, in the Toronto Globe and
Mail, was titled "What Would Madam Eve Think?"
  
I added my web site to stop all that...

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