How are you doing? I wonder if you might be able to do a reprise of
your previous excellent work on Symbols and Icons signifying riches or
wealth, but this time turning your attention to symbols, icons,
gestures, etc. that signfify or convey fame, being famous? I am
thinking of things like spotlights, a television camera, red carpet,
Oscar statuette, etc., but not only for movies, but fame in any
manifestation. Not necessarily as a result of being rich -- fame
could be of a criminal, for example. It would be great if you can
identify 35 or so (I think you exceeded that on the question about
rich, but that different topic may have been easier. Anyway, as many
as you can identify -- would be greatly appreciated. Let me know if
you have no time or interest to work on this. Thanks!
Request for Question Clarification by
24 Oct 2004 09:06 PDT
Criminy, how'd you know I'd be around? I've actually been hovering on
the LG "Wheat, Rice, and Wine" Q hoping I can pry it loose from the
2-day lock by the Googlebot but I must leave the house for supplies.
Will be gone most of the day while I load the pack mules.
I would be covered in glee to tackle another 'list' Q for you. Doing
more time in the IV iconage rodeo is delightful incarceration.
Would a late night posting work for you?
Q *V* C
Clarification of Question by
24 Oct 2004 17:21 PDT
Yes, any time you can manage to fit into your schedule would be fine
with me. It is important, but not urgent. Thanks!
Sorry I got such a late start this evening. Those bang sherpa taxis.
So I spitballed this list and can do the research leg tomorrow if you
can steer me in a desired direction. Deal?
Goodie bags/gift baskets for celebrity presenters
Harry Winston loaner diamonds
Top designers vie to dress celebrities while garnering attention for themselves
Pre-shows, on-carpet interviews, recaps, interviews with winners
DVDs mailed to SAG members along with ballots
Publicists (individual and studio)
Full page ads in Variety
Prestige from invitation to host ceremonies
Celebrity interviewers, Barbara Walters, Joan Rivers, Army Archerd
Beefy security guards and bomb sniffing dogs
Entourage of hair and makeup people
Boost in career from nominations/awards
Instant name/face recognition
Perks (comped tickets, best seats in restaurants; private boxes)
Fan sites/fan clubs
Lives are fodder for late night comedians
Invasion of privacy
Threat of kidnapping
Security systems/privacy walls/electronic gates
Cottage industry surrounding the famous (clothing, autograph, and name
trading -- 'so-and-so ate/slept here)
Commercials and voice overs
Public speaking engagements
Product or clothing line/jewelry/perfume
Mention in history/record books
Immortalized in song/painting
Street/building/hospital wing named for you
Hollywood Walk of Fame
A mommy dearest tale
Safeguarding of information
60 Minutes exposé
Easy marks for the litigious
Gold diggers/fair-weathered friends
Fame/power enhances sex appeal
"Celebrity" justice/Court TV
Publicity -- both positive and negative
Lloyds of London to insure a famous body part
Andy Warhol's 15-minute quote
You're as famous as your last role/book/play/deal
Homes in Architectural Digest/In Style/MTV Cribs
Fame as an entree to politics
The 'royal wave'
Personal trainers/personal chefs (many of whom go on to become famous)
Life or executive coaches/guru/therapists
Addictions/Betty Ford Center
Private clubs/country clubs
Trademark or affectations (Michael Jackson's glove; Elvis' spandex
white jumpsuits; the tight-jawed upper crust accents)
Entrepreneurial spirit/inventor types/thrill seekers (Donald Trump,
Ray Kroc, Steve Jobs, Richard Branson)
Originator of catch phrase/fad/pop culture craze
Charity events/golf tournaments/foundations (Paul Newman's Hole in the
Wall Gang; Tiger Woods Charity Golf Tournatment; Prince's Trust)
Forbes Richest List
Most Eligible Singles
The famous curry favor with those in power; trading favors
White collar/country club prisons
FBI/Interpol's most wanted list
Featured on "America's Most Wanted"
Some of the most infamous criminals have sociopathic traits. They are
unconcerned with the feelings of others and focused on their own
needs. Everyone else is simply an object, a "thing" to be used and
discarded. (John Hinkley, Mark David Chapman, Ted Bundy, Andrew
Media metrics: Web mentions on Google; press clips compiled by
LexisNexis; TV/radio mentions, and how many times a celebrity?s face
appears on the cover of major magazines.
Press junkets, concert/book tours
Strained relationships with no-so-famous family members
The legacy you leave your children
Implied responsibility to be pillars of the community/role models
Dysgradia syndrome: "Celebrities' children, like the children of the
very wealthy, also run the risk of wasted lives due to dysgradia, a
syndrome where there is a complete lack of connection between doing
and getting. "This is extremely amotivational," (...) "You know that
no matter what you do, everything's still going to be there."
The pressure to stay on top
In the end, fame may just be a longer obituary.
Request for Answer Clarification by
25 Oct 2004 03:32 PDT
Many thanks! Yes, this is very much wha I am looking for. The only
possible add on suggestion I might throw out there is whether there
are any you came up with that are more historical in nature, to add to
this list. What were the symbols of fame long ago and far away,
whatever long ago and far away might mean? And fame rather than
riches, so not sure there would be many points of response anyway.
The list is already very much what I was hoping for (and had come to
expect), so we can call this answered whenever you say. Muchas
Clarification of Answer by
26 Oct 2004 02:58 PDT
Hello IV and thanks for the stars and tip. I rarely call my answers
complete till I'm exhausted and your questions are like mental
windmills. I just need to get a second wind and refocus in the
This question was by far the most challenging as you're focusing more
on an intangible. I was stuck on how to represent that as a symbol on
film. But, hey, that's your job; mine's just to brainstorm the
possibilities and I'm far from sick to death of this question yet.
But I must've been hallucinating to think I could add to this during
the week. If I can give you a mental image of my job, it's like
having your head in the toilet and your brain being sucked out by a
Commando 450 power flush. I'm not at my best.
I will, however, meet you here next Sunday for a final wrap-up.
Request for Answer Clarification by
30 Oct 2004 00:12 PDT
Thanks! I look forward to it.
Clarification of Answer by
31 Oct 2004 19:46 PST
Hittin' it hard, hittin' long
Up all night tryin' to write this song (answer) heh.
("Drift" - Matthew Ryan)
Dunno why, but I thought this answer needed a soundtrack.
Somebody got murdered
Goodbye, for keeps, forever
("Somebody Got Murdered" - The Clash)
Mafia - Omerta, Mafia kiss, dead fish/body parts/Hoffa
Charles Manson - The Family/Spahn Ranch/Sharon Tate
Hitler - Holocaust/swastika/Mein Kampf/SS
Robert Oppenheimer - A bomb/Manhattan Project/Shiva
Anne Frank - Diary/Attic
John Dillinger - Biograph theater
Lizzy Borden - Axe
Lincoln - Ford's theater/Emancipation Proclamation/log cabin
JFK - Moon landing/Bay of Pigs/PT-109/conspiracy theorists/Marilyn Monroe
Gandhi - Spinning wheel/Salt March/Ganges
I wanna go out, the way I came in
My flame blowing out
In the summer wind
Somewhere under a delvaux moon
Childhoods end came too soon
("Buried Alive" - Ian McCulloch and Will Sergeant/Echo and the Bunnymen)
Le Cimetière du Père-Lachaise
The Tower of London
"William the Conqueror began to build the massive fortress - the White
Tower- to impress and dominate the people of London in 1066. The
Tower served till the 16th century as a royal home, a prison, an
execution site, a royal mint and an observatory. There also used to be
a royal menagerie. Now it is a museum where tourists go to see an
arsenal of weapons, the Crown Jewels in the Jewel House, the prison
where many famous prisoners were kept, the execution block where Henry
VIII's wives, Ann Boleyn and Catherine Howard, and philosopher Thomas
More were beheaded. The Tower is guarded by the Yeomen Warders who
still wear the uniform of Tudor times. Six ravens are kept in the
Tower to protect the whole Kingdom. The legend says that the Kingdom
will cease to exist when the ravens leave the Tower."
Royal sarcophagus/tomb/tomb relief/family vault/mausoleum/temple
"The Cobra is the symbol for the royal house of Egypt. In the
beginning, only Pharaohs were entombed with riches and grand
ceremonies inside of elaborate monuments like the Pyramids. Egyptians
believed that the people who died under a pharaoh?s reign would only
get to go to heaven if he did. So, no expense was spared to ensure
this. Millions of dollars of precious gold and silver were laid to
rest with him. Later, important rich people were also buried with
riches to send them into the afterlife."
Gold watch, diamond ring,
I ain?t missin? a single thing.
And cufflinks, stick pin,
When I step out I?m gonna do you in
They come runnin? just as fast as they can
Coz every girl crazy ?bout a sharp dressed man
("Sharp Dressed Man" -- Frank Beard, Billy Gibbons and Dusty Hill/ZZ Top)
Red and purple/vestment hierarchy
Pope's miter/sedia gestatoria/mozzetta
Napolean's imperial bees/eagle
"In Far Eastern astrology, the White Tiger is a supernatural figure
who presides over the Western, or autumn quadrant of the sky. The
spirit of the White Tiger combines the courage and fierceness of a
soldier with an ethereal, magisterial dignity. In ancient times, the
head of the White Tiger graced the shields of soldiers going into
battle, the entrances to important fortifications and the bows of the
Emperor's fastest ships.
To wear the symbol of the White Tiger embroidered on ones robe was
indicative of high rank among military officers.
In the ultimate tribute, the title of 'White Tiger' was bestowed upon
Yin Chen-Hsin, a canonized general by the last Emperor of the yin
dynasty. The general's image is found on the entrance of all Taoist
temples to this day.
The mystery and mythology surrounding the White Tiger continued
unabated for centuries. Its likeness was frequently painted on
sanctuary walls to frighten away demonic, evil spirits. White tiger
images pervade the remaining temples and structures of the famous
Shogun dynasty of Japan."
And the bazaar man by the Nile
He got the money on a bet
For the crocodiles (oh-whey-oh)
They snap their teeth on a cigarette
Foreign types with their hookwhey pipes sing:
Walk like an Egyptian.
("Walk Like an Egyptian" - Liam Sternberg/The Bangles)
Falcon/Vulture/Egyptian manner of dress
The first time ever I saw your face
I thought the sun rose in your eyes
And the moon and the stars were the gifts you gave
(The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" -- Ewan MacColl/Roberta Flack)
Historical shrine/statues/busts/life mask
Blinding me with science - science!"
I can smell the chemicals
"blinding me with science - science!"
("She Blinded Me with Science" - Thomas Dolby)
Dmitry Mendeleyev - Period Table of Elements
I'm gonna make it to heaven
Light up the sky like a flame
I'm gonna live forever
Baby remember my name
("Fame" - Michael Gore and Dean Pitchford/Irene Cara)
Language and Glossary Usage
Father/Mothers of a movement/theory/system/law
Take my name, I don't need it
Nothing stays the same anyway
Take my fame, I can't use it
("What's My Name" - Prince)
The times were not so killing
They laid flowers at your feet
If the flesh were not so willing
And the spirit not so weak
They'd come to get your blessing
The gods they left their trace
In the body of a messenger
With Aphrodite's face
("Aphrodite's Face" - Eliza Gilkyson)
"The lion is an Asiatic symbol of royalty. The lions placed to guard
the royal doors of the eastern empires (Assyrian and Alcmaeonid)
contained a ritualistic component that flourished in the iconography
during the years of Alexander.
Oak leaf clusters decorating the lintel of the western portal of the
corridor. Clearly resembling that of the oracle of Dodona [in Greece].
Grape clusters as symbols of Dionysus. Alexander, from the very
beginning of his expedition, considered Dionysus to be his protective
deity, and as the only prototypical God-Hero he needed in order to
conquer the East.
Additionally, instead of a high tiara (the emblem of the Persian royal
rulers), Alexander adopted as an emblem of his rule [after conquering
Persia] the diadem, which originated in the iconography of his
God-Hero Dionysus, and who Alexander considered to be his predecessor
in the conquest of the East."
feast days/festivals/sacrifices/Pythian games
Trojan horse ("Beware of Greeks bearing gifts")
Ring them bells St. Peter
Where the four winds blow
Ring them bells with an iron hand
So the people will know
Oh it's rush hour now
On the wheel and the plow
And the sun is going down
Upon the sacred cow
("Ring Them Bells" - Bob Dylan)
Hindu murtis and the sacredness of the cow
Indian royal symbols
You may be an ambassador to England or France
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody
("Gotta Serve Somebody" - Bob Dylan)
Code of Hammurabi
Everybody in the Soviet Union, unite
Go down to the shops and talk about John and Yoko
Timothy Leary, Barbara Windsor, Yoko Ono, Madonna
Bobby Dylan, Bobby Charlton, Eddie Charlton
Tommy Cooper and the Amazing Horseradish Dancers
Derek Baker, Norman Mailer, Alan Ginsberg and the Hare Krishna Three
All we are saying
Is give peace a chance
("Give Peace a Chance" - Lennon/McCartney)
Protest marches/flower in the rifle/bra & draft card burning
Kent State/Ohio 4
"Tank man" Tiananmen Square
The king called up his jet fighters
He said you better earn your pay
Drop your bombs between the minarets
Down the Casbah way
The shareef don't like it
Rockin' the Casbah
("Rock the Casbah" - The Clash)
Anarchists - Circled A/Black and Red&Black Flag
Oh mercy, won't you come and shine your love on me
Take this blind indifference and make me see
All the good around me, all the friends that keep me clean
Human beings were never meant to be so mean
("Blind Indifference" - Stephen Fearing)
Symbols of Controversy
KKK - burning crosses
Sigil of Baphomet
Möbius Strip, Borromean Rings, Brunswik faces, Theory of Relativity,
Hermann Rorschach, Vitruvian Man, Statue of David
If you had everything you wished for
What would you live for
And what would you lose
("Happy Hour" - Matthew Ryan)
palaces/thrones/crown jewels of England
honorary degrees/courtesy titles/Pulitzer and Nobel Prizes
We didn't start the fire
But when we are gone
Will it still burn on, and on, ....
("We Didn't Start This Fire" - Billy Joel)
Donkey - Democrat
Elephant - Republican
Lady Liberty - Libertarian
Sunflower - Greens
Red Fist of Solidarity
Earth Day symbols
Black Power salute
Russia's Hammer and Sickle/Bear
The Japanese flag
Framers of the Constitution
How can you lose, uh, with the stuff you use
Oh, it's your thing.
Do what you wanna do, do
("It's Your Thing" - The Isley Brothers)
Robinson Caruso - Shipwreck/hut/Friday
Freud's cigar - cigar/cocaine
Lindberg's - Spirit of St. Louis/Hauptman
J. Edgar Hoover - FBI/frilly dresses
Frank Lloyd Wright - boxy, sleek architecture
Joe McCarthy - House on Unamerican Activities hearings
Nixon - Watergate Hotel/Vietnam/audiotapes
Marie Antoinette - guillotine/cake/French revolution
Hugh Hefner - Playboy Mansion/pipe et PJs/bunny ears
Edgar Allen Poe - raven/creepfests
Diogenes - lantern
Adam and Eve - Garden of Paradise/apple/serpent/original sin
Mao's - Little Red Book
Socrates - Gadfly/forum philosophy/chalice of hemlock
Ask me who was the first man to make a fire in the night
Ask me who thought of using a candle for a light
("Ask Me 'Bout Nothin' But The Blues" -- Henry Boozier/Bobbie Blue
Bland + Boz Scaggs)
Wright Bros. - Kitty Hawk
Ben Franklin - kite/bifocals
Henry Ford - Model T
Jonas Salk - Polio vaccine
He's a magic man, mama, ah ...
He's a magic man
("Magic Man" - Ann/Nancy Wilson)
Charismatic leaders may dedicate their lives to charitable works,
explore philosophical issues or new ways of being in the world ...
Challenge the status quo, create a compelling vision, establish shared
values, enable others to act, model the way, encourage the heart ...
Others may wish to further their own agenda, pursue the black arts,
prey on peoples' fears and insecurities, and may even encourage others
to matryr themselves in their apocalytic vision.
The Charisma Factor
L. Ron Hubbard
Sun Myung Moon
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh
Osama bin Laden
Aristotle et Plato
miracles/crystal balls/magic potions/silver tongues/tea leaves/the
cone of power/hypnotism
And everybody knows that you?re in trouble
Everybody knows what you?ve been through
From the bloody cross on top of calvary
To the beach of malibu
Everybody knows it?s coming apart
Take one last look at this sacred heart
Before it blows
And everybody knows
("Everybody Knows" - Leonard Cohen)
Dictionary of Symbols
This world is tearing at you
This world wants to see you fall
Most times the only thing you can do
Is keep your head and whisper, afterall
This world is only a moment
This world never made no sense
("Autopilot" - Matthew Ryan)
The Googlies will know where to send my wheelbarrow o'cash and the limo.
Cecil B. De*V*
Request for Answer Clarification by
04 Nov 2004 14:14 PST
Extraordinarily helpful and creative additional comments / responses,
Voila. Thank you very much. There is plenty of material here now
from which to draw "le symbol just", to paraphrase.....
I look forward to asking you more questions, not just to get the
answers, but to see how your mind and research skills work!
Clarification of Answer by
08 Nov 2004 06:59 PST
Hey there, IV --
I suppose everyone's idioverse is fairly unique but I've gotten that
"I wanna examine your brain" line so often I'd better leave mine to a
mad scientist. I do realize I'm not wired like most people.
"...the trick is how to understand someone else's idioverse -- and
since we must do that within our own idioverse, it means joining our
idioverse with theirs, our horizon with theirs, and gaining a more
Seems a bit of what we're doing here at GA -- a little knowledge laddering.
Secret to my research?
1. Personally, I just keep looking until I find something that
interests me. If it interests me, it'll probably be so for
2. Work it till you're satisfied. Have/adopt an autotelic personality.
3. Stick with subjects that keep you foraging and don't hoard information.
4. Dissect the question creatively.
5. Don't be lazy.
6. Don't do answers-in-an-hour.
7. Be in your customer's corner and give them your best work product every time.
8. Inject some personality and a sense of humor in your answer.
9. Pace yourself and don't be afraid to color outside the lines.
10. Don't be overly concerned with the outcome.
Research in general:
Jobs Designed as Games - "The more a job inherently resembles a game -
with variety, appropriate and flexible challenges, clear goals, and
immediate feedback - the more enjoyable it will be regardless of the
worker's level of development. Hunting, for example, is a good example
of "work" that by its very nature had all the characteristics of flow.
For hundreds of thousands of years chasing down game was the main
productive activity in which humans were involved. Yet hunting has
proven to be so enjoyable that many people are still doing it as a
hobby, after all practical need for it has disappeared.
It's strange we think of feature films but maybe you're doing a
shoestring-budget internet film or a shortie like this one. I saw all
the symbols and I busted up over life's patterns and chance.
But then again, if the Googlies tell me the name on your VISA card is
H. Weinstein, I'll be lookin' ya up, Harvey.
Find the Flow
Trains, palanquins, and automobiles
"A century ago, to travel by luxury steam train through the scenic
splendor and the ancient cities of Europe was to savor life at its
finest - to feel and sense something intangible and unforgettable.
These magnificent trains - with their exquisite carriages and
luxurious decor - became as much a part of the traveling experience as
the venerable cities and majestic countryside through which they
Lavishly designed for the nobility of Europe, the trains recall a
bygone era when craftsmen labored for the sake of excellence and
reputation, and when those who were endowed with life's privileges
were not averse to showing it. It was this quest for perfection that
led to one of the most exquisite palaces on wheels ever, the Imperial
train of the Austro-Hungarian monarchy."
Orient Express, QE2, private coaches
Signum/trumpets and drums/fanfare/ruffles and flourishes
White Glove/White Star Line
"Shakespeare's works also reflect the Elizabethan love for gloves, the
symbolic meanings attributed to them and the customs connected with
them. In Love's Labours Lost an oath is sworn by this white glove
and in Troilus and Cressida by the pair of gloves belonging to Venus
and Mars. Cressida gives her glove as a keepsake to Troilus when
taking her leave of him. In Timon of Athens the senators require
Timon's glove as a pledge before they surrender themselves. In Henry
V a glove is also given as a guarantee for the late settlement of a
deferred dispute. Shakespeare frequently refers to gloves as the
"leathern hand" or "the coloured hand."
Marianne' visage/flag/red Phrygian bonnet
Books on Symbols
Another 'bee' reference:
Fame is a bee
It has a song
It has a sting
Ah, too, it has a wing
-- E. Dickinson
IV, I'd love to do another question for you if time and interest
converge, but usually I'm singing this anthem:
"No Time" (Randy Bachman and Burton Cummings/The Guess Who)