" We are not exactly sure what you are asking me to
clarify. I simply want to know .."
Problem (next to the attitude) is that some things are not simple:
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
Marriage is not a private affair and visa are not like digital cameras
or other such gadgets, you see advertised on TV. In your case, the case of
two young people in love, who want to get married, there are other
people involved. People are not easy to predict (and we at GA are not
in the business of predicting what they will do, or in providing legal
advice [see disclaimer below]). What we do here is to look what is
publicly known, combine it with
our own experience and provide the best info available to the client.
This is that info:
Your fiance will need visa to travel to the US. To get that visa, any kind
of visa, she is required to truthfully state the purpose of the travel.
That's a 'period' at the end of that sentence: It limits what kind of visa
she can apply for.
Here is some more info 'for good measure':
How fast she will get the visa, and if she gets them depends on the
U.S. Consul General in Kiev. Ukraine does not prevent it's citizens to leave
their country (any more) for a legitimate reason, such as marriage.
Process of getting US visa, particularly in post 9/11 era and in
EE however is complicated.
I cannot make it simple, but I did find for you info which is
relevant and available on the web. If Mrs. Lisa Vickers is not at the
consulate any more, the info is still relevant. Her sucessor is very
likely to see it similarly.
Section 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) stipulates
that Consular Officers cannot issue nonimmigrant (visitor, tourist,
business, or student) visas to individuals whom the Consular Officer
suspects of intending to immigrate to the United States. Although you
may contend that this visit is just to get acquainted in person to
establish the feasibility of a continuing relationship, these people
have, in fact, indicated a desire, willingness and readiness to
emigrate from Ukraine...
So, if your fiance declares intention to get married in the US, she becomes
inneligible for US tourist (etc) visa. She may pretend that she is going to US
'for pleasure' and then state she just met her true love there, and
changed her mind. However, to get tourist visa she would have to
present all kinds of documents, invitation, proofs of supports,..
which (unless she happens to have an uncle in US) would have come from
you. That would make her later statements not credible in the eyes of
Here is the rest of the story: Visa does not means she will be able to enter:
Getting a U.S. visa: myth vs reality
In an interview with The Ukrainian Weekly, U.S. Consul General Lisa
Vickers emphasized that the United States does not work through any
third parties in issuing visas to Ukrainians, whether they are
consulting firms, employment firms or travel agencies. She explained
that all Ukrainian citizens desiring to travel to the United States
need to be prepared for face-to-face interviews, and that honesty is
the only way that the prospective visitor has a chance to obtain a
She also noted that a visa does not provide a guarantee that at the
U.S. entry point customs officials might not turn away a visa holder
who they deem is entering the U.S. for purposes other than what their
visa allows. This means that if a person, who has fooled the system
and obtained a tourist visa while in fact intending to work, for
instance, cannot adequately explain where he will be staying and who
his hosts are to be, he could be turned away even once in the United
States. Ms. Vickers underscored that in the post-9/11 era, customs and
immigration officials are particularly wary of travelers' intentions.
So, fatest way is to be honest. You can (should) call US consulate and talk to
the consul there and state you intend to marry, provide the required afidavits,
and have her to apply for fiance visa.
You said you do not care for personal advice, and so I will not repeat
that other option, getting married first, in Ukraine (and having a
second ceremony in US) may be even faster, and easier on your fiance.
It is possible these day to 'marry at distance'.
Here is a somewhat related story, which indicates that ukrainian
citizen leaving her country may like know for sure that she will
indeed be able to stay in her new home. Marriage does provides higher
degree of assurance then
engagement. As I said on the beginning, marrriage is not a private affair, but
also a contract with society at large. You are free to ignore that
fact at your peril.
" I own my apartment but if I cancel my residence permit which I
should do when applying for the PMZh I run a risk of losing the
Good luck, and congratulation to your marriage
and all the best wishes to both of you.
Clarification of Answer by
02 Feb 2006 03:01 PST
Hello again Hiii,
I see that this is first time you are using this service.
I welcome you to GA, and here few more links for you to look at:
To overcome the difficulty in communicating about these complex issues
spanning diverse cultures, we need to be careful about terminology:
"Please don't take offense to my statement to the previous commenter .."
You got one free comment by an interested bystander, which was well meant, but
not appropriate, as is clear from your response. I do not see anything
wrong with your response to the comment, and I certainly do not take
Then you got a paid answer (not a comment) from me on 'the fastest way.'
This posting is now my response to your RFC. The process, and your options
you have, if you are not satisfied, are explained in the links above.
The right attitude, leading to good decision, and your evaluation of
the options the two of you have, requires sensitivity and attention
paid to the societal and cultural issues involved.
Marriage is always a contract between the two people who want to get
married and the society at large. In this case the society at large is
global, and it wants the two people to be happy, the child taken care
of, peace and harmony in the world. These are complex issues which you
may see your and her private issue, as long as you have means to
Others who have a say in the process may see it differently than
either of you, and part of the answer is made as a suggestion to
evaluate your perspective and take others' perspectives into account
to that you will be successful in getting your fiance to the U.S.
SEARCH TERMS: marriage, social contract , inter-cultural
may bring some interesting reading material.
There may be other fast options (like trying to smuggle her in) but
they would not be legal (and see the rule above, we do advise people
on that) and they may indeed cause troubles later.So this option you
have rightly excluded.
By the analogy with cameras I was illustrating the fact that each
visa case is different, even if are they same type (e.g. K1), unlike
cameras which, for a given model, are all same.
I gave you a link to an overview of all possible visas in my
original, pre-answer RFC.
In the answer I gave you the fastest way:
Be honest and make a personal appeal to the US consul.
In my experience this is the quickest, most reliable way to acquire
visas into the U.S., from places as diverse as Canada and Eastern
The consultates, especially these days, are responsible for very
careful screening of applicants. and have extensive resources to do
so. Attempting to select a visa which sounds faster but is not
truthful, may result in your sabotaging your and your fiancee's future
together as well as causing you legal troubles.
The consul is likely to postpone or refuse any visa not consistent
with circumstances she knows,such as previous visits, pregnancy, etc.
The fact that you have the means and a business etc does not mean you
can (safely) circumvent the laws of your own country. That attitude
could defeat your entire
I hope this clarification helps in your decision-making. Good luck!
Rating is appreciated. It helps me in the process of improving my skills.
Clarification of Answer by
03 Feb 2006 02:41 PST
The web is filled with stories about K1 vs K3 and how long they take
but the stories are not reliable for decision-making,
and the recommendations differ.
What may work for Japan,for example, is unlikely to work for Eastern
Europe and Ukraine in particular.
(While we are all equal in eyes of God, the INS and its officers are human :-)
Without making a personal appeal, both K1 and K3 are 6 to 12 months,
as seen in this comparison:
The filing of paperwork could assisted by an immigration lawyer;
(You could look at some of those ads which are floating on this page).
We do not provide legal advice here; just links to published info, such as:
"Which visa - K1 or K3? Which center?
Which immigration attorney: Her fee is $2500..."
From your personal comments, it sounds as if this fee
would not be a hardship, but I would negotiate a (lower) fee beforehand.
There are other personal stories on bulletin boards like this:
which may be useful, as long as you leep in mind that
each case is unique and each country is treated differently.
There is lot of addditional info, e.g. K visa FAQ:
"Whereas the K1/K2 visa process is fairly straightforward, the K3/K4
is not as simple. It is important for the US Citizen to be informed
and attentive to detail, because there are several opportunities to
make mistakes and omissions which could result in unpleasant
surprises. Immigrating to the United States via the K3/K4 is not such
an automatic process as is experienced by the K1/K2..."
My recommendation, based on more important factors than just the paperwork,
including personal experience with the U.S. side of things and the Eastern
European side of things, is
Make one more trip, talk to the consul in Kiev, marry in Ukraine.
Enlist the sympathy and cooperation of the consul there in expediting
the process. Don't demand or be impatient with any bureaucrats;
they respond much better in Eastern Europe if you "ask for help" rather
than "demand service." The first may open doors, the second will result
in a wall of stubborn resistence. Years of resisting Communism and helping the
deserving get what they needed, sometimes by quiet personal efforts on the
part of the clerk, have made this an important cultural difference to
be reckoned with. If possible, be with her on the flight to the U.S.
and entry so there are no glitches or unnecessary unpleasantness.
Have a second marriage ceremony in the US, perhaps after she adjusts
a bit to a new life. It is not at all uncommon now to have marriages
on two continents in two different cultures.
Among other benefits is that each set of relatives celebrates the day
with the couple.
SEARCH TERMS:second marriage ceremony
] (one link to be pasted)
Cross-Cultural Marriages are both rewarding and challenging.
You may find this 'google -group' (former usenet-group) interesting and useful:
You can always post another question on other aspects of your plans
and decsions. We will be here.