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Q: Source of obscure quote and some information about speaker ( Answered 4 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Source of obscure quote and some information about speaker
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference
Asked by: cogg-ga
List Price: $50.00
Posted: 02 Feb 2006 18:19 PST
Expires: 04 Mar 2006 18:19 PST
Question ID: 440724
I heard a quote on the radio that I would like to try to track down
the source for.  The quote is "Every institution is inherently
demonic." Chris Hedges was being interviewed and was quoting someone
else who I can't make out the name of.  This link:
http://www.publicradio.org/tools/media/player/kpcc/news/shows/airtalk/2005/06/20050614_airtalk2?start=00:31:48&end=00:53:01
should take you right to Chris quoting the quote.

I tried variations on "demonic"/"group"/"quote" in Google, searched
the popular quotation sites on a large variety of terms and even
bought Chris Hedge's book trying to track this down so far (it wasn't
in the book).  The ideal answer would include the proper spelling of
the person who the quote is from, the context the quote was made in
(in a speech, the name of the book it was in, etc.), and a either a
link to biographical information for the author or a short (1-2
paragraph) bio of the author.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Source of obscure quote and some information about speaker
Answered By: pafalafa-ga on 13 Feb 2006 20:01 PST
Rated:4 out of 5 stars
 
cogg-ga,

Thanks for an interesting question.

I listened to the link you provided, and the excerpt clearly (to my
ear) attributes the sentiment to Paul Tillich, a philosopher whose
works I read a bit of many years ago.

Tillich was a well-known Christian theologian in the first half of the
20th century.  You can get a quick overview of his life and works
here:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Tillich
Paul Johannes Tillich (August 20, 1886 ? October 22, 1965) was a
German-American theologian and Christian existentialist philosopher.
Tillich was, along with contemporary Karl Barth, one of the more
influential Protestant theologians of the twentieth century.



Most brief descriptions of Tillich's works focus on his religious philosophy. 

But Tillich also had strong socialist leanings, and had a lot to say
about the dehumanizing influences of modern society, and particularly
the institutions of capitalism.  Chris Hedges was undoubtedly
referring to this aspect of Tillich's work, although he appears to
have been paraphrasing, rather than directly quoting, Tillich.

Probably the Tillich essay that is most on point to the sentiment of
institutions being inherently demonic is his seminal (though not very
well-known) essay, "The Person in a Technical Society".


This essay is not freely available online, but I have access to it
through a subscription database.  Here are some pertinent excerpts:


===============

Christian Faith and Social Action: A Symposium
John A. Hutchison
Scribner, 1953 

[this book contains Tillich's essay]

The Person in a Technical Society 
PAUL TILLICH 
p 137

VII. CONFORMITY VERSUS MAN 

...Western technical society has produced methods of adjusting persons
to its demands in production and consumption which are less brutal,
but in the long run, more effective than totalitarian suppression.
They depersonalize not by commanding but by providing, providing,
namely, what makes individual creativity superfluous. If one looks
around at the methods which produce conformity one is astonished that
still enough individual creativity is left even to produce these
refined methods. One discovers that man's spiritual life has a
tremendous power of resistance against a reduction to prescribed
patterns of behavior. But one also sees that this resistance is in a
great danger of being worn down by the ways in which adjustment is
forced upon him in the industrial society. It starts with the
education of "adjustment" which produces conformity just by allowing
for more spontaneity of the child than any pre-industrial
civilization.


...throughout his whole life, other powerful means of adjustment are
working upon the person in the technical society; the newspapers which
choose the facts worth reporting and suggest their interpretation, the
radio programs which eliminate non-conformist contents and
interpreters, television which replaces the visual imagination by
selected pictorial presentations, the movie which for commercial and
censorship reasons has to maintain in most of its productions a
conscious mediocrity, adjusting itself to the adjusted taste of the
masses, the patterns of advertisement which permeate all other means
of public communication, and have an inescapable omnipresence.

...The technical development is irreversible and adjustment is
necessary in every society, especially in a mass society. The person
as a person can preserve himself only by a partial nonparticipation in
the objectifying structures of technical society. But he can withdraw
even partially only if he has a place to which to withdraw.

...It is the task of the Church, especially of its theology, to
describe the place of withdrawal, mainly the "religious reservation."
It is the task of active groups within and on the boundary line of the
Church to show the possibilities of attack, to participate in it
wherever it is made and to be ready to lead it if necessary.


...Christian action must find a way to save the person in the industrial society. 


=============== 



I think you can clearly see that the sentiment is there, if not the
precise phrase that institutions are, at the least, inherently
dehumanizing, though Hedges preferred the slightly more sensational
term 'demonic'.


Again, though, there is no evidence that Tillich every actually
uttered the precise phrase "institutions are inherently demonic" and
frankly, it doesn't sound much like something he would have said.  He
was wordier than that!



Another (unfortunately offline) work worth mentioning is this more recent essay:


Paul Tillich on the Institutions of Capitalism
Betsy Jane Clary
Review of Social Economy, Vol. 52, 1994 


in which the author discusses Tillich's views on the institutions of
capitalism at some length.  You may want to ask a local librarian to
retrieve a copy of this article for you.


I trust this information fully answers your question.  

However, please don't rate this answer until you have everything you
need.  If you would like any additional information, just post a
Request for Clarification to let me know how I can assist you further,
and I'm at your service.

All the best,

pafalafa-ga


search strategy -- From listening to the link, I was able to discern
the reference to Tillich.  I then searched for his views on
institutions in a variety of databases.

Request for Answer Clarification by cogg-ga on 24 Feb 2006 09:48 PST
Sorry for the delayed response, I have been trying to determine if my
disastisfaction with the answer is reasonable. I am certain that you
fulfilled part of the question (identifying the name and providing the
bio) very well.  It doesn't appear though that you identified the
quote, or more importantly, the context of the quote.

I think it is possible to believe that Paul Tillich never uttered the
exact phrase, though something you didn't mention is that the
referenced Wikipedia article links to published works that show that
he was very fond of the word "demonic," so to me it actually seems
likely that he did use the phrase.  The references you gave to his
work though don't seem directly relevant to the quote (as they refer
to the dehumanizing aspects of capitalist institutions rather than the
relative morality of individuals and institutions).  So even if Hedges
was paraphrasing, the referenced works don't seem to be the most
relevant.

Are there works or sermons that are more directly relevant to the
context of the quote (at least how Hedges interprets it)?  I am not
interested in religious institutions versus capitalistic institutions,
but rather the propensity of institutions to seek to perpuate
themselves to the detriment of the inviduals that make up the
institution.

Clarification of Answer by pafalafa-ga on 24 Feb 2006 11:41 PST
cogg-ga,

Thanks for getting back to me, and for letting my know that my initial
answer is half good (and half not!).


First off...not to worry.  If you are unhappy with an answer, you get
your money back.  It's that simple.

Secondly, I am able to search through quite a large volume of
Tillich's works, and I simply have not found any sort of direct
statement along the lines of "all institutions are demonic".


You are quite right, though, in that 'demonic' was a well-used term by
Tillich.  Here a few excerps that get close, anyway, to the
potentially demonic nature of institutions of all types:


=====

Theology of Peace
Paul Tillich

...When Augustine equates the Kingdom of God with the church and the
Kingdom of Satan with the great world empires, he is partly right and
partly wrong.  He is right in asserting that in principle the church
is the representative of the Kingdom of God; he is wrong in
overlooking the fact...that the demonic powers can penetrate into the
church itself, both in its doctrine and institutions.  He is right to
the extent in which he emphasizes the demonic element in every
political structure of power...



...Salvation is related to individuals as well as to groups...to
personalities as well as to institutions...the salvation of groups and
institutions is of special importance.  It means that the demonic
perversion and destruction of groups and institutions is overcome...






The Essential Tillich
Paul Tillich 

...Has the Church the task and the power to attack and to transform
the spirit of industrial society?...In its prophetic role the Church
is the guardian who reveals dynamic structures in society and
undercuts their demonic power by revealing them, even within the
Church itself...


=====


These are really as close I have come, thus far, to finding a pithy
statement by Tillich on 'insitutions', broadly cast, and their
tendency towards the demonic.


Do these quotes better suit your needs?  

Please let me know your reaction to this material, and let me know, as
well, whether you would like additional materials/quotes at this
point.

By the way, I also searched through Chris Hedges book and many of the
articles he's written.  Though there is mention of Tillich in a number
of areas, there is nothing that even approximates the "insititutions
are demonic" phrase he used in his NPR interview.


And lastly, as I said above, if you feel a refund is in order, let me
know that as well, and I will ask the editors to have my answer
removed.



Thanks,


pafalafa-ga
cogg-ga rated this answer:4 out of 5 stars
Asking a question involving a quote is always a risky endeavor, as
they are often quoted wrong or attributed to the wrong person.  I knew
that going in... so while I was not able to get the quote in context,
I am satisfied that the rest of my question was answered well and that
an appropriate methodology and level of effort was used.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Source of obscure quote and some information about speaker
From: myoarin-ga on 24 Feb 2006 17:05 PST
 
I don't have audio, so couldn't hear the link.  If Paf heard Chris
Hedges say "Paul Tillich", I am sure he did.  Hoping that the
quotation might be found with a search using German words, I found
this however:

[PDF] Michel Foucault. Die Bedeutung des Machtbegriffs f r die ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
?Unsere Gesellschaften haben sich als wirklich dämonisch. erwiesen,
indem es ihnen gelang, diese beiden Spiele miteinander zu kombinieren
? ...
content.grin.com/data/7/45944.pdf - Similar pages

"Our societies have shown themselves to be really demonic, in that
they have managed to combine these two games with each other - ..."

(There is a period after "dämonisch", but it obviously is there in error.)

Unfortunately, the quotation does not appear on the page that comes up
with the site, so it is only an assumption that the line is from
Foucault and not the author of the book referenced.
As Cogg-ga mentions, Hedges could have made a mistake, although I
found a speech in which he quotes Niebuhr, another theologian, and as
a Prespyterian minister's son he may be expected to be more than
passingly familiar with Tillich and Niebuhr.

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