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Q: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where? ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   18 Comments )
Subject: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: probonopublico-ga
List Price: $2.00
Posted: 22 Jan 2005 22:17 PST
Expires: 21 Feb 2005 22:17 PST
Question ID: 461836
I am trying to arrange a duel somewhere in a place that's convenient
to the UK, Belgium and Holland.

Naturally, neither participant nor the organisers want to break any
laws, so please suggest some suitable venues.

Also please advise on disposal of remains, etiquette, costume, etc., etc.

And if one party is injured should he/she be given a coup de grace ... Or what?

This is urgent!

Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
Answered By: thx1138-ga on 23 Jan 2005 06:20 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
Hello Bryan,

Fencing is really great fun, you should give it a go.  It just so
happens that there is a club not too far from you..

"Brighton and Hove Fencing Club (B & H.F.C.)"
Meet for practice on Thursdays 7.45 - 10.00pm at St.Mary's Church
Hall, Surrenden Road, off Preston Drove, Brighton. Professional
coaching at all levels, all equipment provided. You need to wear
trainers and loose, comfortable top and trousers. Open to all over 12
years of age. Matches and competitions at all standards and weapons
(foil, epee, sabre). Special courses for beginners. There is a small
charge per session."

Also see:

"Duelling stories of the 16thC - From the French of Brantome"


"The Complete Newgate Calendar 
Volume V



Thank you very much for the question and allowing me to answer it.

Very best regards


Search strategy included...
fencing accounts

(MI6 still haven`t been in contact)

Request for Answer Clarification by probonopublico-ga on 23 Jan 2005 13:10 PST
Trop tarde, mon Capitaine ...

The Moving Finger has writ and having writ 'tis still there.

Clarification of Answer by thx1138-ga on 23 Jan 2005 13:34 PST
Bryan,  I saw "Please respond to the clarification request." In my
message centre and almost died, then I saw it was you. Phew.....


probonopublico-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $5.00
Hi, thx

Many thanks for your great answer & comments.

Somehow I can't see myself swashing a merry blade but I enjoyed the
reading matter. Possibly a swordstick?

Now that 'certain people' know that you know how to take care of
yourself, contact will be made. But are you sure that you are
frequenting a sleazy enough bar?

All the Best


Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: am777-ga on 23 Jan 2005 01:34 PST
Dear Bryan,

Thank you for allowing me an opportunity to answer your interesting question.
Below you will find that I have carefully defined my search strategy
for you in the event that you need to search for more information. By
following the same type of searches that I did you may be able to
enhance the research I have provided even further. I hope you find
that my research exceeds your expectations. If you have any questions
about my research please post a clarification request.

Best regards;

Maid Marian   defenitely !!!!
Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: fp-ga on 23 Jan 2005 01:44 PST
Well, I do hope it's not too late:

"Dueling has been replaced, in modern times, with other sports and
games that are generally much safer than dueling itself":
Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: silver777-ga on 23 Jan 2005 03:02 PST
Sir Bryan, Maid Marian, Capitaine Formidable

The Isle of Man does seem appropriate given the circumstance of
dishonour. How admirable to see you approaching a duel with such gusto
Maid Marian.

Might Waterloo or even Antwerpen, Belgium also be appropriate? It must
be illegal almost anywhere. Dispense with the laws and go out in

Swords, pistols or banjos? Duelling banjos just as painful as bullets
are outlawed worldwide except in a small part of America where both
country AND western "music" continue. A trip to the States would be
out of the question. Pistols are too .. quick. Not much entertainment
for the onlooking commoners.

Swords, daggers, rapiers even. Brushcutters, chainsaws and a cement
mixer will add much colour to the show. The arena will be filled with
mud. Maid Marian will wear the obligatory g-string brief and loosely
knitted chainmail boob tube. Capitaine can wear what he likes.

Rules: No Coup de grace. Each will have 9 "seconds". Upon first blood,
a loser will be replaced. The loser will then be known as a 10

Etiquette .. no double dipping.

Tickets available through me. Pensioner and family discounts apply.
20% of proceeds to the restoration of Hamlet Hove upon Sussex.

Let the games begin.

Sir Philanderer
Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: thx1138-ga on 23 Jan 2005 04:30 PST

It`s not on your list, and it`s a bit out of the way but how about Paraguay?

"Duelling is legal in Paraguay if both parties are registered blood donors."

Just before Christmas I tore my right calf muscle fencing, hurt like
hell! So warm up properly first.

Very best regards

Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: capitaineformidable-ga on 23 Jan 2005 04:54 PST
The only thing that bothers me about this duel is that since neither
Anne-Marie nor me, challenged each other directly, then technically
which one us is the injured party. According to the rules, it is the
one who is challenged that has the choice of weapons.

For the moment balloons on sticks seems to be on the cards but chain
saws and concrete mixers also seems to be an interesting possibility.
One of us could finish up holding up a bridge on a new motorway
extension. Lending support on a public foundation must surely be a
worthwhile cause.

Your noble capitaine.
Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: thx1138-ga on 23 Jan 2005 05:35 PST
For rules and guidlines see....

"A morally acceptable duel would start with the challenger issuing a
traditional, public, personal grievance, based on an insult, directly
to the single person who offended the challenger.

The challenged person had the choice of a public apology or other
restitution, or choosing the weapons for the duel. The challenger
would then propose a place for the "field of honour". The challenged
man had to either accept the site or propose an alternate. The
location had to be a place where the opponents could duel without
being arrested. It was common for the guardia to set aside such places
and times and spread the information, so "honest people can avoid
unpatrolled places."

At the field of honour, each side would bring a doctor and seconds.
The seconds would try to reconcile the parties by acting as
go-betweens to attempt to settle the dispute with an apology or
restitution. If reconciliation succeeded, all parties considered the
dispute to be honourably settled, and went home.

Each side would have at least one second; three was the traditional number.

If one party failed to appear, he was accounted a coward. The
appearing party would win by default. The seconds and sometimes the
doctor would bear witness of the cowardice.

If reconciliation failed, the seconds would help their friend prepare
for the duel, and keep alert for cheating and the authorities.
Cheaters would be shot, usually out of hand. Honourable seconds
sometimes shot their own friend if they found him cheating.

Swords were the typical weapon of the time, although guns and more
unusual items were selected.

The two parties would start on opposite sides of a square twenty paces
wide. Usually the square was marked at the corners with dropped
handkerchiefs. Leaving the square was accounted cowardice.

The opponents agreed to duel to an agreed condition. While many modern
accounts dwell heavily on "first blood" as the condition, manuals of
honour from the day universally deride the practice as dishonourable
and unmanly. Far more common was a duel until either one party was
physically unable to fight or the physician called a halt. While
explicit duels to the death were rare, many duels ended in death of
one or both combatants because of the wounds sustained.

When the condition was achieved, the matter was considered settled
with the winner proving his point and the loser keeping his reputation
for courage."

Out of personal curiosity I once researched what specific act of
parliament made duelling in England illegal.  I couldn`t actually find
one!  There are lots of references to "duelling being made illegal in
the 19the century" etc but no hard piece of legislation (that I could

At the end of my fencing evenings my fencing partner (who also happens
to be my boss!) and I have a great game "Sabre sem regras" (Sabre with
no rules) It quite gets the adrenalin going and makes you realise that
fighting a duel is not like in the films ie.lots of clashing blades,
it tends to be alot of footwork and sudden very violent short clashes
often with an almost simultaneous double touch ( hit each other
almost simultaneously) and it is left up to honour to decide who hit
first.  (In actual duelling accounts it is reported that very often
both parties were wounded.)

Very best regards.

Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: probonopublico-ga on 23 Jan 2005 05:41 PST
Anne-Marie ... What a nice surprise hearing from you again.

And you provided the (almost) perfect answer ... Indeedy, I was on the
point of asking you to post your answer and pick up $100 tip when ...

I saw Freddy's tour de force and Phil's upside down as usual (it does
so strain the eyes) but then ...

The Mighty THX138, dripping in Blue, arrived on the scene with the
exciting news about Paraguay!

Of course, that rogue Capitaine from the French Foreign Legion had to

When the time comes, Anne-Marie, I shall be rooting for you in Paraguay.

Hasta la Vista


aka Beau Geste
Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: probonopublico-ga on 23 Jan 2005 05:45 PST
THX1138 ... What can I say except ... En garde!

I never realised that you were a swashbuckling type.

You fully deserve the bucketful of stars that I had provisionally put
on one side for Anne-Marie, so please post your answer.


Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: fp-ga on 23 Jan 2005 06:27 PST
"Duels and Dueling on the Web, a comprehensive guide and web directory
to pistol and sword dueling in history, literature and film":

Unfortunately, no date mentioned in these accounts of the last duel in England:

"Th UK's last duel was fought with pistols in the field half way down
Priest Hill on the right hand side. The loser was then taken to The
Barley Mow pub on the village green where he expired":

"Frederick Cournet ...was the last man to die in England in a duel -
which is ironic, since he was a Frenchman. His opponent, a man named
Bartholmy, was also French":

This last duel took place near Englefield Green and Egham. 

Well, Englefield Green and Egham are among the "1000 Places to see
Before you Die" according to:
Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: answerfinder-ga on 23 Jan 2005 07:26 PST
Fp-ga?s useful piece of information has led me to discover a tangled
web of deceit and murder. This tale should certainly warn you against
entering into a duel involving pistols.

I researched Frederick Cournet?s role in this reported last duel and
discovered he was murdered in a duel in October 1852 at Egham. His
opponent was one Emanuel Bartélémy. His trial took place at the
Kingston Crown Court in the following year. He was charged with three
other Frenchmen who had assisted as seconds and aided Bartelemy?s
flight. Being all Frenchmen, they pleaded ignorance of the English law
against duelling and pleaded not guilty before the court. The
prosecution stated that only one pistol had been fired: Bartelemy?s;
they then alleged that upon on examination by the police, Bartelemy?s
pistol was found to contain a small piece of rag which prevented it
firing. Unfair play was indeed suspected, but they were unable to
prove that it had been placed there deliberately.
They were all convicted of Manslaughter and because of their ignorance
of English Law, they were sentenced to 7 months imprisonment.
Later newspaper reports hinted at spying and other dastardly
activities by the convicted men.
So beware.
Source: Times Newspaper

Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: probonopublico-ga on 23 Jan 2005 08:09 PST
Hi, Freddy & AF

It gets even more interesting!

I have decided to stay in the background and but if necessary to plead
ignorance of the law, citing the precedents that you have established.

And I shall pretend to be French (worth knowing!)

Ooh là là

Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: thx1138-ga on 23 Jan 2005 08:18 PST
Hello again Bryan,

Just a note to say thank you for the five stars and generous tip!

Oh I know some fairly sleazy bars!  I`ll just keep scouting them out...


Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: capitaineformidable-ga on 23 Jan 2005 09:39 PST
The Paraguay reference is both interesting and strange at the same
time. Why is it necessary for the combatants to be registered blood
donors, since a party that is injured is more likely to require blood
than donate it and if one of them is dead then how are they going to
get it out? Maybe you have to contribute to the pool, so to speak,
before you are allowed to take any out. Yes,Paraguay sounds about

Yr. Noble Capitaine.
Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: capitaineformidable-ga on 23 Jan 2005 10:55 PST
I?ve just noticed I have just posted the thirteenth comment, not good.
I will just post this to take the dubious (loosing) line off the screen.
I am not superstitious but one can?t be too careful.

Capitaine F
Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: capitaineformidable-ga on 24 Jan 2005 04:13 PST
Capitaine Formidable, (see internet) is one of the class of people who
is already dead. It is imperative that an independent observer,
perhaps thx1138-ga, or others, can interoperate the rules for someone
who has already passed over to the great divide, returning to earthly
form in order to fight a duel. One thing for certain is that I can?t
be killed twice.

Having said that, I wouldn?t want anybody to think that this was some
yellow bellied; chicken livered hornswaggeling; wriggeling on the
hook, cheap cowardly trick to try and get out of it. No siree! And I
wouldn?t want the indignity of having my own seconds trying to shoot
me for cheating (not that it would have much effect).

The thought of seeing my worthy and honourable opponent clad only in a
G-string and loosely fitting chain mail chemise is worth a return to
more solid form and I certainly wouldn?t want to deprive her of the
satisfaction which is her due.

Het veld van honoreren moeten altijd gelijk blijven.
As we sometimes say in het Nederlands.

I await your advice with anticipation.

Your honourable Capitaine Formidable.
Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 28 Jan 2005 10:25 PST
Pssst, Bryan et al., the action is now over at #464133, waiting upon your presence.

I responded to the call to my name there without having seen any of
this and was quite bewildered.  But now it makes, uh, ... actually,
about as much sense as it did before.  I'm having to make up words,
and Phil has kind of tossed his into a bucket with some molasses,
bubble soap, and ordinary garden gravel and is pouring out fairly
indiscriminately.  But anyway, don't miss the action--and hurry,
before Phil runs out of hot dogs!


P.S.  Are am777 and silver777 related?  They have the same last name.
Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: silver777-ga on 28 Jan 2005 17:36 PST
Your Highness,

As ticket seller self imposed, I have organised the venue for your
indulgence. The stadium is filled. The support group is in place.
Catering remains adequate for the moment.

But, words of entertainment have become depleted. Your reknowned wit
is all that is required to keep the subjects from revolting. Some are
gathering missiles of gourds as we speak.

Your loyal subjects await you. 

Subject: Re: Duelling Regulations - Europe or where?
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 28 Jan 2005 19:44 PST
Isn't one of the principals missing?

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