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Q: How can I get my domain name from a squatter? ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   13 Comments )
Question  
Subject: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: severisth-ga
List Price: $11.00
Posted: 25 Jan 2005 11:03 PST
Expires: 24 Feb 2005 11:03 PST
Question ID: 463127
I would like to get the domain name  w w w . a r t b a r . c o m  for
a client of mine, who happens to own and operate the bar of the same
name in Florida.

My understanding is that there is a legal precedent whereby a business
can reclaim a domain if they are doing business under that name.  If
so, what is the process for doing this?
Answer  
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
Answered By: denco-ga on 28 Jan 2005 20:06 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Howdy severisth-ga,

A reminder of the "Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on
Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute
for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal,
investment, accounting, or other professional advice."

The first process is getting a service mark on "Art Bar" for your client.
This is a pretty straight forward process, and can be filed by using the
Trademark Electronic Application System (TEAS) which is an online facility
on the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) web site.

This will cost $325.00 "per international class" if you do it online and
$375 "per international class" if submitting paper, as of January 31, as
per this USPTO web page.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/trademarks/notices/tmfeechange.htm

"Trademark Filing Fees Change on January 31, 2005"

What does the "per international class" mean?  For the service mark for the
bar, you will need to file for one international class, specifically for
something such as "Bar services" (IC 043) if that is all the client does.
If your client wants to sell shirts with "Art Bar" on them, that is yet
another international class (IC 025), and another $325.00, etc.

The place to start for getting a service mark is this USPTO web page.
http://www.uspto.gov/teas/index.html

"The United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) is pleased to present
TEAS - the Trademark Electronic Application System. TEAS allows you to fill
out a form, check it for completeness, and then submit the form directly to
the USPTO over the internet, making an official filing on-line."

A TEAS tutorial can be found here.
http://www.uspto.gov/teas/eTEAStutorial.htm

"Welcome to United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) TEAS TUTORIAL"

International class codes can be found here.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/netahtml/tidm.html

"Trademark Acceptable Identification of Goods & Services"

Just take your time doing the application.  It really is not that bad to do,
and if you read the help files the USPTO has online, you should get through
it without too many problems.  You can call the USPTO at 800-786-9199 with
questions and they have Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) web page as well.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmfaq.htm

"Trademark FAQ"

There are alternatives to doing it yourself, such as LegalZoom?s "lawyer-free"
service, which runs $149.00 in addition to the USPTO fees.
http://www.legalzoom.com/legalzip/trademarks/products_trademark.html

"Simply answer an easy-to-understand questionnaire, and LegalZoom takes care
of the rest -- no need to download, no need to print."

You can get an attorney instead, and that could run from a few hundred to a
few thousand dollars.

I actually liked learning how to do it myself as that gave me knowledge that
I could use in the future, such as now.

Then, you get to wait.  It can take less or more time, but it took 18 months
for me to get my service mark.  Even though it appears the service mark that
your client wants is available, this does not mean that it really is available
or that you will get it.  It might have already been filed for, or if there is
a dispute for the service mark, such as another company having used it in the
line of business before your client, the service mark application could be
denied.  If that happens, you will most likely not get any of the application
fees back.

For the next part, we will assume that you got the service mark.  You could
hire an attorney to draft a letter to the domain name's owner at that time,
citing (for instance) service mark (trademark) infringement, and see how they
react.  In my situation, I emailed the infringing party, told them of my
intent to file in federal court, and they quickly transferred the domain to
me.  As the current owner of the domain name in question is relatively large,
that might not get you very far.

The alternative is seeking a judgment under the Uniform Domain Name Dispute
Resolution Policy (UDRP) which was adopted by the Internet Corporation for
Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) and they have more information of the UDRP
on their web site.
http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp.htm

"All registrars in the .biz, .com, .info, .name, .net, and .org top-level
domains follow the Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy (often
referred to as the 'UDRP')."

More on the UDRP can be found on these ICANN web pages.
http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm
http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-rules-24oct99.htm

This ICANN web page has a list of organizations that can arbitrate or mediate
disputes.
http://www.icann.org/udrp/approved-providers.htm

"Approved Providers for Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy"

One of the above providers is the World Intellectual Property Organization,
also known as WIPO.
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/

"This area is dedicated to the services established by the WIPO Arbitration
and Mediation Center for the resolution of domain name disputes."

They have a good FAQ section which explains their fees, etc.
http://arbiter.wipo.int/center/faq/domains.html

"For resolution of a case involving one to five domain names, with a single
panelist, the current cost is US$ 1,500; for three panelists, the total cost
is US$ 4,000."

A "plain English" UDRP FAQ can be found on the InterNIC web site.
http://www.internic.net/faqs/udrp.html

"The following is a list of frequently asked questions (FAQs) about the Uniform
Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy (UDRP)."

The above FAQ points out that the process usually takes just a few months.

As with the service mark process, there is no guarantee that your client would
win under the UDRP process.  As one commenter pointed out, they might not look
favorably on an "after the fact" trademark acquisition.

As another commenter pointed out, you might want to apply for the trademark,
and offer the current owner (negotiate!) $500 to start with, and go up to
$1,500 (the bottom line for the UDRP process) for the domain name.  They
might just go for it, and that could save you some time and money.

If you need any clarification, feel free to ask.


Search strategy

I already knew of the processes involved, so I reviewed the current information
at the following web sites.

USPTO web site - http://www.uspto.gov/
ICANN web site - http://www.icann.org/

Looking Forward, denco-ga - Google Answers Researcher
severisth-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Thanks denco-ga! Just the info I was looking for.

Comments  
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: shockandawe-ga on 25 Jan 2005 11:48 PST
 
Years ago some one bought up the domain apple.com before Apple
Computers could, then sat on it waiting for Apple to make them a big
offer.
Apple sued and the court ruled in Apple's favor. The language of the
decision I believe set the precedent that since the sole intent of the
owner was to deprive Apple from having it, this was deemed illegal. If
however, the owner had any legitimate use for the name.. ie, they sold
delicious apples, they wrote poetry about apples, their last name were
apple, etc the court would have ceded them the right to own it.

This is just the recollection of some random dude, but it may be a
starting point if no one gets you a proper answer.
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: web_zen-ga on 25 Jan 2005 14:16 PST
 
It is my understanding that unless you have the name trademarked, and
the other party doesn't, you are in for a long, expensive and possibly
futile legal battle. Twice, in similar situations, I have researched
the offending party, found and reserved a URL that is of more value to
them than the one they are sitting on, explained why and offered to
trade -- successfully.
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: severisth-ga on 25 Jan 2005 14:40 PST
 
Thanks for the feedback!

I figure a trademark would be easy to obtain. I may have to go that
route. Hopefully, there's some information on the web that a
researcher can find...
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: denco-ga on 25 Jan 2005 16:55 PST
 
Howdy severisth-ga,

Having gone through the process of trademarking a company name
as well as getting a domain name from a squatter, I can provide
the process to each.  That said, I would (strongly) advise that
you not go that route as you are looking at some money, a long
wait, and then more money and a probably longer wait.  We are
talking possibly thousands of dollars and one to three years.

I would (strongly) advise an easier route.  Perhaps go with a
domain name such as ArtBarFlorida.com or such.  I am not a
lawyer, especially not a trademark lawyer, but there are all
sorts of places named "Art Bar" out there, some of which might
have been around longer than your client's, so the trademark
process might not end with the desired results.  Then there
is the process of wresting the domain name from current owners.

Looking Forward, denco-ga - Google Answers Researcer
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: nelson-ga on 25 Jan 2005 17:01 PST
 
I don't think the court would look too favorably on a trademark
obtained after the website was registered.
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: fischermx-ga on 26 Jan 2005 16:00 PST
 
Definitely, trademark should had to be obtained before.

You better go to the owner and try to buy it, it defintely will cost
you a lot less than a lawyer.
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: severisth-ga on 27 Jan 2005 07:18 PST
 
denco-ga,

Please do go ahead and post the process as the answer. I've already
set my client up on an alternate domain name as you suggested, so
we'll be able to proceed business as usual while we go after the
domain. I would like to go ahead and find out for sure what will be
involved before I give up. Money is not the biggest concern...

Regards,
severisth-ga
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: denco-ga on 02 Feb 2005 10:50 PST
 
Much thanks for the 5 star rating, severisth-ga.

Glad we could be of some help, and good luck!

Looking Forward, denco-ga - Google Answers Researcher
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: severisth-ga on 08 Mar 2005 12:14 PST
 
Thank you patentattorney! In the face of all the information provided
here, it doesn't look like we'll be going after the domain at all.
That IS quite a lot of hassle.
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: keralpatel-ga on 23 Dec 2005 06:39 PST
 
Yeah you can goto court and file a case against him if your firm is an
established one. But beware you should have enough paper backup to
prove the case in your favor.
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: jitupadhiar-ga on 28 Dec 2005 05:03 PST
 
Why don't you try and look up for advices on some of the forums.

Here are some:-
http://www.namepros.com
http://www.nameslot.com
http://www.dnforum.com
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: severisth-ga on 28 Dec 2005 12:20 PST
 
Very cool, thanks for the tips! It's been a while though - the
customer has probably lost interest.
Subject: Re: How can I get my domain name from a squatter?
From: jitupadhiar-ga on 14 Jan 2006 01:07 PST
 
There are many ways to get it. The best and the most legal way to get
it is to contact authorities and file a complaint against the
squatter.

I have seen many domainers in my life but squatters are just squatters.

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