My husband bought a ford truck for $ 13.000 on 28 dec 2004. Total cost
for truck 18,000.00 with 18 % interest rate. We used our trade in car,
pontiac for $ 3100.00 in assumption that the existing loan for the
pontiac will be paid by the car dealer or the creditors from the new
truck.. We owe $ 4200 on the car still. The deal was made , my husband
cancelled the allotment for the pontiac. Begin of jan 05 , my husband
called the dealer to see when he would pay off the loan for the
pontiac and he assured him that the new company who financed the truck
was in the middle of doing so. Anyway , got a call from the pontiac
finance people, they never knew that we traded in the pontiac, nobody
ever asked about an outstanding balance.The dealer somehow got the
lien release from the bank,even though it was not approved. Now we are
stuck with payments of $ 700 a month and the dealer has our old
car.Dealer told me that he couldnt pay of the loan since it was a
personal loan my husband got for the pontiac, which is absolutely not
true. I checked out the bill of sales ,it never says on there that the
remaining balance of $ 4000 is included for the new loan. So my
husband didnt check, was in a hurry and made the deal.The dealer
scammed us. The pontiac loan bank is now checking on how the dealer
got the lien release, possible put in the vin# himself.I called the
DMV and they assured that the lien release was presented by the
dealer. Anyway is there anyway I can get my old car back.I feel
betrayed and simply can not afford to pay $ 700 a month. Please advise
thanks a lot
crying in Kansas

Picket.  I once had to have work done at a dealership.  I was very
exact in what I wanted checked and repaired.  They ended up replacing
the clutch.  After they replaced the clutch it turned out that a
support had broken, a support I had ask them to check, and that was
the reason the clutch had stopped working.

Well anyway, I asked for my money back for the clutch. They said "hell
no"!!  I then wrote out a very nice simple letter describing what had
happened.  Printed 100 copies. Made a couple big signs, something like
"I got Ripped Off".  Then got all dressed up in my Sunday best and
started picketing out front of the dealership on Saturday.  As people
drove by and stopped to look for a car to buy, they would always come
up to me - I gave them the letter.  That's it.  As the saleman began
to whine and cry to me, I would hand them the letter and ask for their
help.  Once I got everyone's attention, it took about 30 to 45
minutes, I left and a few days later I got my money.

Call the police beforehand and check out the "rules".  Tell them
exactly what you are doing.  They were very supportive of me.

Now this is very important. Do NOT get into a fight with anyone. Talk
very little. Be very polite and kind.  Your letter should say it all -
very nicely.  State in the letter what you want.  Let the letter do
your talking.  Be reasonable in your demands.

The Salesman WILL GET MAD AT YOU.  Just be nice and kind. SMILE -
SMILE - SMILE.  DO NOT GET INTO A FIGHT WITH ANYONE.

You do not have to stay very long the first time.  This will get their
attention and will force them to deal quickly with the problem.  They
know that you will be back if they don't.


By picketing you will shut down any sales for the day.  Hopefully your
dealership is big and has lots of salesman who need to make a living. 
By doing this you will bring a large amount of pressure on management
to take care of this problem.  If they refuse - pick up your signs and
picket some more.

Your best bet is to contact a lawyer and have this investigated. If
this has happen to you maybe it has happened to other people which
would greatly help your case. Most of the time what a car dealer will
do is to use your car as a trade in pay it off and then tack the fee
onto the end of your bill.


Read and understand the fine print
Don?t feel rushed to sign the papers and drive away. The commitment
you make will be one you have to live with for a long time. Make sure
that the vehicle?s total cost lines up with your negotiated bottom
line. Review all other itemized costs including taxes and surcharges
to insure there are no hidden costs, such as dealer preparation fees,
which may not apply. For dealer arranged financing, confirm interest
rates, term, and late payment and prepayments penalties. Certain
lenders? fees are negotiable, such as early disposition fees on leases
or prepayment penalties. Make certain the all of the blanks are filled
in. If you are unsure of something, demand a clear explanation that
makes sense. When in doubt have a licensed attorney review all
documents before you sign them. Your dealership can fax documents to
your attorney for review before the delivery date.

http://www.lemonlawoffice.com/lemonpages/lemon_tips.php

better business bureau

http://search.bbb.org/search.html

On top of everything else, I'd take a look at the 18% loan.
Bankrate.com (a good site for comparing interest rates on all types of
products) lists current auto loan rates between 4% and 7% (depending
on all kinds of factors).

Go to http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/auto_home.asp?link=8 for auto loan info.

You're paying 18%, which seems like it borders on usury. See if you
can refinance. Look into your state's fair creit/lending laws to see
if the dealer broke laws. If you end up working with a lawyer on this,
it's certainly worth having the lawyer examine your 18% loan.

Financeeco,

Unfortunately if the credit department is located in a state where
there is no usury law or a loose usury law, then they are allowed to
charge everyone in the US that rate.  "Interest rate shopping" is a
term used to describe the moving of banks to states with looser usury
laws so that they can charge higher rates even outside of their home
state.

Currently the US usury limit is 60%.  I live in Maryland who to my
understanding made a much lower usury limit in the 80s and then very
soon after lost their 4 largest creditors to Delaware (who has a very
loose usury law).  Even today all my credit card bills get mailed to
Delaware.

I wrote my congressman about this issue and he gave me a call saying
he's very interested in the issue and it seems to me that he wants to
take action against it.  We'll see :)  an good act of congress is
indeed a rare treat.

I feel pretty helpless, my husband wants to wait till we get the
papers from the DMV ,cause his bank from the old car asked for them
.If the dealer put the vin# on the papers himself ,then we can do
something about it. Is there a law for scams only? I read so many
different websites and it says black on white, that if you got scammed
9 out of 10 the dealer gets out of it and you are stuck!!

OH did I mention that the truck we bought is a 1999 and it got
financed through nation security credit union.See my hubby's credit is
not the best ,so the dealer found him that loan agency. So I guess
they could do it,charging him 18 %.I am not sure.I don't know the laws
to well  in the states since I am from germany. I just know that the
guy scammed us and I would like to get out of it.

Puppi, 

I'm sorry to hear about you being scammed.  I hate it when businesses
do shaddy things just because they can get away with it.  And
unfortunately in this case, it seems you are legally stuck with the
signed documents.  It will be hard for you to prove what was said
during the negotiation, and so the written document will hold more
weight.  Even if you could fight it legally, the legal fees would eat
up most of your money... and if you happen to lose the legal fight
then you'd probably still have to pay the lawyer.

Just4fun did make a great suggestion.  In the US you almost always
have the right to voice your oppinion loud and clear.  Voice it to as
many people as you can going into that dealership by using the letter
idea and a big sign.  The dealership will see that
1) you honestly feel like you were scammed
2) you're not going away easily
3) you're costing them more money than they scammed out of you

If your letter is reasonable and you get your message to enough
perspective customers then the dealer will very likely give in and pay
you what is owed.

Be willing to devote a day to this (perhaps an all day Saturday
event).  And remember as Just4fun siad, be friendly and professional.

Puppi-

In one of your posts you mention that the dealer found a bank to
extend the loan. I'm still shocked by the 18% rate, so I suspect
there's something illegal going on. In my state, dealers have to tell
you if the dealer benefits in any way by channeling business to a
given financial institution.

It used to be common for dealers to have a two-tier financing
system... good credit risks went to the auto maker's captive bank (a
Ford dealership would arrange financing through Ford Motor Credit
Company). For bad credit risks, the dealer would find an 'independent'
bank to arrange the loan. Frequently, the dealer would channel all the
risky buyers to the same bank in exchange for a substantial kickback
from the lender. The buyers would end up paying a higher rate, and 1
or 2 percentage points of that rate would be a hidden kickback to the
car dealer. This is considered fraudulent and illegal in some states.

One more consideration if you end up working with a lawyer.

Contact the Attorney Generals Office of your state. This will get the
car dealers attention real quick. There may have been problems with
this dealer before you.  Also contact the Department of Motor Vechiles
Investigation Division.  In most states an Auto dealer has to answer
to a division of the DMV that issues him his wholesale auto brokers
license.  Tell them it involes a title to a car you traded in. He
could lose his dealers license from the state if he doesn't take care
of this matter.
Did you sign a power of attorney when you brought your truck?  If not
then you have a little more ammuntion for the Attorney Generals
Office.
You may want to check on the title to the truck you brought.  If he is
in this bad of shape then he will do anthing to make a buck. Even make
a duplicate title for the cars he sells.  You Never Know!
Did he show you the title to the truck you brought?   
In closing the dealer will not help you in any way.  Most of the time
they laugh at you when you come in.  Getting a lawyer will not help
you in the least.  The reason is most lawyers do not understand the
car business. And for that matter not many people understand the car
business.  Do what I have told you - because it will cost you nothing 
- but you will gain a lot of ground on this dealer real quick.

Good Luck - Keep at it and you will win in the long run.
KoolKingDaddy

When your credit is less than par - in order to get financing the
dealer has to find someone to take a chance on your loan.
Most of the time the interest will be between 18% - 25% common pratice.
No it is not fair - but in the same breath it not not aganist the law
for second chance companies. You have not shown your ability to pay in
the past..
It is the only way a person can get a loan with bad credit for an automobile.
Pay on the loan for 12 - 18 months.  Then try to re-finance.
After you show that you are able to pay and pay on time you should not
have to pay interest like that again.  Sorry!
          Usery is not the question here.  
      Also the interest rate was not the question. 
Please see my answer to your being scammed by a card dealer question.

Thanks for the great advice from everybody, as for now we haven't
heard back from the old car's loan department about the title and why
the old car has not been paid when it was traded in.As soon as I get
to the bottom of this I let you know.